2010 Prius - what a nightmare!

[m21sniper]

It's not true. The part was poorly designed. Bad specs.

Aurel was typing in green to signify sarcasm.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Z-man

Then again, I'm not a car market analyst, so what do I know?
-Z-man.

Nor I, but I thought I heard on the radio this morning that Toyota stocks are up. Go figure.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Ford licensed Toyota's technology for it's hybrids...

Seems correct. The Fusion hybrid has the same engine stats as the baby Lexus hybrid, which has also been recalled. Ford Fusion..."next."

[dd74]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

It's not true. The part was poorly designed. Bad specs.

Aurel was typing in green to signify sarcasm.

I realize Aurel's intent. At any rate, design and execution are different, yah? Think of your current POTUS, and you'll see what I mean about quality control.

[m21sniper]

LOL.

Anyway, the design itself was bad. That's all on Toyota.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

LOL.

Anyway, the design itself was bad. That's all on Toyota.

Okay. I'll buy that. The design was bad. But all the engineering in the world can't know the design is bad until it's put into play.

In another words, whether the accelerator was American, Italian, Vietnamese or Martian made, (as I shrug), it all points back to the bow of shame...

[m21sniper]

In the old days they'd all Hari Kari.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

In the old days they'd all Hari Kari.

That's next...

[daepp]

I bumped into a Toyota salesman at the gas station Friday - he said sales were fine. Anecdotal I know...

BTW - I always said the hybrids were too complicated. Give me a TDI any day!

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by dd74

Okay. I'll buy that. The design was bad. But all the engineering in the world can't know the design is bad until it's put into play.

In another words, whether the accelerator was American, Italian, Vietnamese or Martian made, (as I shrug), it all points back to the bow of shame...

No, no, no. the point of engineering is to anticipate the failure of each and every safety system. On most of the equipment, we had to have a triple stacked failure before a catastrophic event.

You need to keep things simple. You need to anticipate failure and have a backup that can be relied upon. Read the WSJ Letter that preceded mine. Many times the mech-e's are over ruled.

I'm not suggesting that we have to go back to pneumatics and links and levers for everything. But putting something as essential as the brakes into a place where a single point failure will kill, is really bad.

I've written programming for operating Gas Turbines, Steam Turbines and Combined Cycle power plants. I understand the limitations of instrumentation, valve, heat exchangers, etc. I have been asked to "solve" hardware issues with the controls. I deeply understand what they are facing. I would never have made the design decisions they did.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by DAEpperson

I bumped into a Toyota salesman at the gas station Friday - he said sales were fine. Anecdotal I know...

BTW - I always said the hybrids were too complicated. Give me a TDI any day!

And too expensive for what they do.

Take the Prius, stick a 1.0-1.2 liter 4 banger in there which produces 70 hp, with a modern fuel injection system, and I bet you'll get as good gas mileage as the hybrid. It will weigh less, be far less costly, less complicated and higher in reliability.

My 1978 Datsun B210 (hatchback) would get 40 mpg on the highway, with a 2V per cyl, 1.6 liter, Carburated engine. It weighed under 2000 lbs and was pretty darn areodynamic. Imagine if that car had a modern 4V per cyl engine, with fuel injection. It would only need 1.0 liter displacement to make 70 hp. Run 60 psi tires and I expect that baby would do 50+ on the highway.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Z-man

I find that very hard to believe.

-Z-man.

That's what I would have thought and was concerned for my brother since this directly impacts his livelihood.

I was just as surprised by his response.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

That's what I would have thought and was concerned for my brother since this directly impacts his livelihood.

I was just as surprised by his response.

Possibly another Toyota smokescreen like the "floor mats are causing this problem. Nothing to see here folks - and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

When the hard numbers for February and the 1st QTR in April come out, then we'll have a better gauge on what's going on...

-Z-man.

[dd74]

The Toyota PSA ads playing on TV are pretty interesting. They show motionless factories with few workers inside, stating they've stopped production to "make things right."

[kach22i]

Toyota has problems and it's American's fault?

Some of you must love Japan more than the USA.

Oh well.

[RWebb]

This looks bad - we don't know all the details yet. Maybe worse than sniper puts it or maybe not as bad as that.

It sure does not look to be as bad as the Ford Pinto burn our customers issue. Remember that one? Ford under I-a-cock-uh knew that people would die flaming deaths in rear end crashes, and even calculated the cost to pay off their families. It was about $6 and change per Pinto made. They also calculated the cost of a shield to prevent the flames from spreading to the passenger compartment. it was about $8. They decided to let their customers burn.

Yet Ford recovered from that. Chevy recovered from the side gas tank fire thing (don't know the details for sure on that one).

I expect Toyota will recover from this too. Either they don't know how to handle a serious problem, or maybe they thought they could just sweep it under the rug.

[Vintage Racer]

Originally Posted by RWebb

This looks bad - we don't know all the details yet. Maybe worse than sniper puts it or maybe not as bad as that.

It's not just the design problems. It's that Toyota has ignored the problem for a long time without addressing the issues.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The nation's largest auto insurer said Tuesday it alerted federal safety regulators in late 2007 about a rise in reports of unexpected acceleration in Toyota vehicles, the latest warning sign to emerge about the massive recall.

State Farm insurance said it noticed an uptick in reports of unwanted acceleration in Toyotas from its large customer database and warned the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in late 2007. NHTSA officials said the report was reviewed and the agency issued a recall later that month.

NHTSA received complaints about acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles as early as 2003, and congressional investigators are looking into whether the government missed warning signs of the problems.

When warnings come in 2003-2007 and are ignored, there is something very wrong.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by RWebb

This looks bad - we don't know all the details yet. Maybe worse than sniper puts it or maybe not as bad as that.

It sure does not look to be as bad as the Ford Pinto burn our customers issue. Remember that one? Ford under I-a-cock-uh knew that people would die flaming deaths in rear end crashes, and even calculated the cost to pay off their families. It was about $6 and change per Pinto made. They also calculated the cost of a shield to prevent the flames from spreading to the passenger compartment. it was about $8. They decided to let their customers burn.

Yet Ford recovered from that. Chevy recovered from the side gas tank fire thing (don't know the details for sure on that one).

I expect Toyota will recover from this too. Either they don't know how to handle a serious problem, or maybe they thought they could just sweep it under the rug.

Toyota will survive, unless more body blows keep coming. The microscope is on them now.

A couple more recalls like the ones they've absorbed would be catastrophic.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by dd74

The Toyota PSA ads playing on TV are pretty interesting. They show motionless factories with few workers inside, stating they've stopped production to "make things right."

Because assembly line workers are the best folks for the job when it comes to performing recall maintenance. Where's my "forehead slap" smiley???

As I was shopping around for a new car I saw a lot of bored Toyota salesmen, let me tell you...

FYI It's hara kiri..."hara" is gut/center and "kiri" is "cut".

[m21sniper]

Thanks for the correction sensei.