2010 Prius - what a nightmare!

[fingpilot]

The fix is a 10 minute re-program of the anti-skid computer. Stealership will say allow 30 minutes because they cannot bill any mech time in increments smaller than that. Yes, warranty still needs to be billed to Manufacturer.

Toyota Japan (where the city streets are in far worse shape than here (think cobblestones), say 10 minutes, and that this 'fix' is to adjust the software to American driving habits.

I'd believe that.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Maybe it's just his dealership, the rest could very well be sucking wind for all we know.

Maybe, but Toyota sales are way, way down:

Originally Posted by from Yahoo new article

Its once pristine reputation for quality has been hammered, and Toyota's share of the critical North American market has nose-dived. Last month was the first time since February 1998 that Toyota's monthly U.S. sales fell below 100,000 vehicles, according to Ward's AutoInfoBank.

Source
(This was part of an article detailing the latest possible recall for Corolla steering issues.)

I think the Toyota Management teams are doing damage control as much as they can. Keep looking up -- things will get better....

-Z-man.

[dd74]

Zoltan - have you heard of any C-Series diesels coming to our shores?

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by dd74

Zoltan - have you heard of any C-Series diesels coming to our shores?

Sadly, no - not yet. Don't know why - that market is ripe for the taking...

-Z-man.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Z-man

Sadly, no - not yet. Don't know why - that market is ripe for the taking...

-Z-man.

Truly. A little diesel C-series wagon would be perfect for my uses. Preferably with a manual transmission.

[john70t]

There outta be a law that evrey new vehicle is sold with a complete factory manual.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by john70t

There outta be a law that evrey new vehicle is sold with a complete factory manual.

Don't be surprised if the car companies quit printing manuals entirely, and instead posts the manuals online.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by dd74

Truly. A little diesel C-series wagon would be perfect for my uses. Preferably with a manual transmission.

David's criteria:
A) C-class Mercedes
B) diesel powered
C) wagon bodystyle
D) manual transmission

C'mon, here in LA, only one of those four criteria are desirable. To wish for all four in the same vehicle? Lots of planets have to be aligned.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Noah930

David's criteria:
A) C-class Mercedes
B) diesel powered
C) wagon bodystyle
D) manual transmission

C'mon, here in LA, only one of those four criteria are desirable. To wish for all four in the same vehicle? Lots of planets have to be aligned.

True. Which means driving up to Vineland and Magnolia where that independent M-B repair shop has a ton of old diesel wagons, freshly converted to run on vegetable oil. Sheesh!

Maybe it's consumer ignorance or manufacturer ignorance -- I don't know -- but there can be a market in L.A. for clean-burning diesel. Audi has been promoting their TDI program by driving around big Q7 SUVs with "TDI" and "clean diesel" plastered on the sides. It would seem M-B and BMW could/should do the same.

I mean, after all, which would an enthusiast rather have when imbibing in green technology. A somewhat anemic half-battery operated car that has now shown it accelerates by its own devices, or a diesel with enough torque to take on some performance V8s, plus get twice the fuel mileage?

[Noah930]

Listen, I'm OK with having modern diesel technology. But from the perspective of a marketing guy, you must admit that the demand is just not there right now. Not that it can't be created, but it's going to take a bit of work. Doesn't help that diesel costs more than super unleaded, per gallon. That you get more miles per gallon (so your overall fuel costs are less) hasn't dawned on most people.

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Listen, I'm OK with having modern diesel technology. But from the perspective of a marketing guy, you must admit that the demand is just not there right now. Not that it can't be created, but it's going to take a bit of work. Doesn't help that diesel costs more than super unleaded, per gallon. That you get more miles per gallon (so your overall fuel costs are less) hasn't dawned on most people.

First of all, gas prices will have to go way up to substantiate diesel. But oil companies will raise diesel as well as gasoline. They'd rather see America starve than let goods get trucked economically to their destination like the grocery store.

Second, diesel seems to depend on distance. If Joe Schmoe moves out to Lancaster and commutes into Downtown L.A. every day, he's going to want a diesel. If he lives in Larchmont Village and takes Third Street to Downtown, he'll want the Prius because of the stop and go.

Diesel seems to work best with long distance; hybrids short distances = if life here expands back out to the suburbs, maybe then we'll see more diesels. But that depends on a lot of awareness on mostly inept automakers.

[RWebb]

it is easier to make bio-diesel than bio-gas AFAIK

there is a lot of - ah - percolation going on in the biofuels biz right now...


but, short-term, I hear the particle trapping issues are holding up diesels.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by RWebb

it is easier to make bio-diesel than bio-gas AFAIK

there is a lot of - ah - percolation going on in the biofuels biz right now...


but, short-term, I hear the particle trapping issues are holding up diesels.

I made a bunch of bio-gas yesterday: Sausage/Bean Soup

[Rufblackbird]

Originally Posted by dd74

Second, diesel seems to depend on distance. If Joe Schmoe moves out to Lancaster and commutes into Downtown L.A. every day, he's going to want a diesel. If he lives in Larchmont Village and takes Third Street to Downtown, he'll want the Prius because of the stop and go.

Diesel seems to work best with long distance; hybrids short distances = if life here expands back out to the suburbs, maybe then we'll see more diesels. But that depends on a lot of awareness on mostly inept automakers.

FWIW...just came back from a LONG road trip to Arizona and back with a rental '10 Prius. After the engine was broken in (picked it up with 78 miles on the clock) I averaged a consistent 44mpg on the interstate doing 70-75mph...and just shy of 50mpg in (desert) city driving which was mostly around 45 mph. Not sure if the current TDi's are up to par just yet...

[dd74]

Originally Posted by Rufblackbird

FWIW...just came back from a LONG road trip to Arizona and back with a rental '10 Prius. After the engine was broken in (picked it up with 78 miles on the clock) I averaged a consistent 44mpg on the interstate doing 70-75mph...and just shy of 50mpg in (desert) city driving which was mostly around 45 mph. Not sure if the current TDi's are up to par just yet...

They are, or are very close. Somewhere around the internet is a mpg test with a V10 TDI Audi that averaged above 50 mpg at highway speed, IIRC. The test was, however, done in Canada, where things are a bit different. YMMV.

[Noah930]

My gasoline-powered 1.8 liter Honda Civic gets about 40-42 mpg on the highway.

[red-beard]

What does the Civic cost vs. The Prius?

[Noah930]

Purchased it in 2008. It was about $17K. Prii at the time were going for mid- to upper-20s (that was the height of $5/gallon gas). Even Civic Hybrids were going for about $23K ($2K over sticker), IIRC.

[red-beard]

$10,000 will buy 2000 gallons of gas at $5. At a difference 40 vs 45 mpg, you save 2.77 gallons of gas per 1000 miles driven. So, you'd need to drive 720K miles to make up for the price difference. At $2.50-$300 gas, basically double that.

And then there is the Yaris...P-O-P was looking to buy one of those, with the incentives and discounts, for something stupid like around $6K. $10K and then $4K for CFC, back last summer.

How on earth can you make up for $10K vs $27K in gas savings, let alone $6K vs. $27K. Even at $10/gallon, it's a long row to hoe.

[dd74]

Well, diesel is one thing, but everyone should know dealers will charge a hefty premium for diesel tech -- just because they can.

So with that, the best bang for the buck that I can see between performance and economy, is something like the Honda Civic Si (two and four door), or the VW GTi (two door and four door).

I would include the amped up Mazda 3 hatchback (can't remember it's name), but I've heard that it's hard to drive (torque steer), and the mileage is not much better than a V8.