black bear advice

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I was just reading some more, it seems that the best 12 ga 3" sabot slugs equal the ballistics and trajectory of 'hot' .45-70 handloads. 385gr .50cal bullet at 2000fps.

Best Brenneke style 12ga slug seems to be a 3" Remington firing a 1 3/8oz full bore slug at 1750fps.

Old style foster rifled slugs have been totally eclipsed it seems, in both smooth and rifled barrels. I wonder why companies still make them.

Good article i found about shotgun slugs:

Shotgun Slugs

Of course i have a better chance of nailing Shakira than getting attacked by a bear, but as i learned in the boyscouts...it's nice to be prepared.

385 grains at 2,000 fps is indeed a formidable load, and very close to my handloads in the .45-70. My "hot" .45-70 load launches a 410 grain bullet at about 1850 fps. Quite honestly, that is still about 6 grains of H322 under the limit for my Marlin, but it is right at my recoil limit. It just flat hurts to shoot it with any more poop.

[m21sniper]

My Beretta 1200 semi (rebranded Benelli M1 Super 90, Beretta owns Benelli IIRC) is a recoil operated 2.9kg (6.4lb) featherweight. With 3" magnum loads it recoils as if it has a couple RATO booster rockets strapped to it. Really SHARP recoil impulse. After about 20rds i'm done shooting that sleek black SOB for the day...

But if you lean into the recoil it shoots FAST and patterns really nicely. My favorite Rem 2 3/4" Magnum 12 pellet 00 Buck loads shoot exactly to point of aim at 15yds or less. It has a healthy 7rd capacity as well. I want to eventually get a nice recoil pad on it and get the barrel ported, so the big magnum loads aren't so damn painful to shoot. I'm going to mount the Burris Fastfire II speed dot HUD i had originally bought for my P7 on it too, once i get some funds free'd up.

I know that sabot slugs are optimized for use in rifled barrels, but i shot some out of my 20" smoothbore barrel the other day and they were grouping a little over 2" at 25 yds. That's way more than enough for any kind of "last ditch" or "charging" defensive shooting scenario.

Frankly if a bear is even that far away, i'd have no real business shooting at it regardless. In all honesty i'd go out of my way to not have to shoot one, if i could manage it.

Originally Posted by mbrouder

Curious if a .458 SOCOM AR would stop a bear.

That's about the equiv to a .45-70 ballistically. With solids it should work extremely well. Bullet type/selection is, to me, far more important than caliber, regardless of what it is you're trying to shoot at.

[GG Allin]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

That's about the equiv to a .45-70 ballistically. With solids it should work extremely well. Bullet type/selection is, to me, far more important than caliber, regardless of what it is you're trying to shoot at.

I was kickin' around the idea of buying a SOCOM upper for my AR just for sch!tts and giggles. Only thing is, I doubt I'll run into any bears around here.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by m21sniper

My Beretta 1200 semi (rebranded Benelli M1 Super 90, Beretta owns Benelli IIRC) is a recoil operated 2.9kg (6.4lb) featherweight. With 3" magnum loads it recoils as if it has a couple RATO booster rockets strapped to it. Really SHARP recoil impulse. After about 20rds i'm done shooting that sleek black SOB for the day...

But if you lean into the recoil it shoots FAST and patterns really nicely. My favorite Rem 2 3/4" Magnum 12 pellet 00 Buck loads shoot exactly to point of aim at 15yds or less. It has a healthy 7rd capacity as well. I want to eventually get a nice recoil pad on it and get the barrel ported, so the big magnum loads aren't so damn painful to shoot. I'm going to mount the Burris Fastfire II speed dot HUD i had originally bought for my P7 on it too, once i get some funds free'd up.

I know that sabot slugs are optimized for use in rifled barrels, but i shot some out of my 20" smoothbore barrel the other day and they were grouping a little over 2" at 25 yds. That's way more than enough for any kind of "last ditch" or "charging" defensive shooting scenario.

Frankly if a bear is even that far away, i'd have no real business shooting at it regardless. In all honesty i'd go out of my way to not have to shoot one, if i could manage it.


That's about the equiv to a .45-70 ballistically. With solids it should work extremely well. Bullet type/selection is, to me, far more important than caliber, regardless of what it is you're trying to shoot at.

snipe check out VANGCOMP.com fer all yer snotguns needs.


i took my REM 870 from hell to him and had him wave his magic wand. unreal groups of slugs and unreal groups with buckshot. had him port it and its a pussy cat. remember 870's are true caveman "CLUBS" in the realm of the snotgun world.


i also had him wave his wand on my HK/BENELLI 21" and my BENELLI M-2 TACTICAL. have group pics at home i will forward when i get home.



hans vang is the SNOTGUN GURU of the planet. DEA/ICE/U.S.MARSHALLS local/county/state all use him for their snotguns.


hes up in chino valley arizona. worth every penny for him to go thru it and it will be a shooter par excellance.


OO or OOO buck all group within about 4-5 inches every single time. no flyers ever.


hans vang is a wizard/a true star of the snotgun world.

[madmmac]

Had a few bears hanging around my house after they dropped some trees a mile or so away.

Rubber slugs in the 12ga for me, bottle rockets and Roman candles for my son from the local Native American firework stands. Every time we saw them we lit into them, which was just a couple of more times after the first sighting and they were gone.

There was also a 300 Win mag sitting close by just in case.

[GWN7]

Bear attack on Vancouver Is. It was on the news. Guy said there was no food or garbage around.

Two men fight off black bear attack at campsite

Remember you are food

[GWN7]

This one is mentioned in the above article : Bear boards boat to attack Vancouver Island man - CTV News

Bear attacks man on boat

[ODDJOB UNO]

wow bears with scuba. stealth bear climbs on boat smelling salmon,crazy azzed molson fueled canucks beat him off with hammers,gaffs,screwdrivers.


me...............well i would have been a nice guy,offered mr. OSO NEGRO a molson and while he wasnt looking .......................jumped off the boat.


instead of shotgunning the HELL out of mr OSO NEGRO and blowing holes thru my hull and watching my boat sink.


or another fractured fairy tale...............i would have SPEARED mr OSO NEGRO with my triple band super duper SPEAR GUN FROM HELL and then jumped off the boat swimming like a MOFO!



or i would have used my HK 26.5mm flare gun and lit him up like a xmas tree and watch my boat burst into a fire ball and then watch my boat sink.



ya always gots to be thinkin of "PLAN Z!"

[scottmandue]

Bears hate enema's...

Just sayin...

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

wow bears with scuba. stealth bear climbs on boat ...

- it is more complicated than you realize

those were not ordinary bears, and the boaters were not just fisherman

those were special attack bears, attached to Seal Team Seven

the "fishermen" were actually an Al Queda sleeper cell team, sizing up how best to carry out a terror attack on Canuckian timber resources

[m21sniper]

Bear on a boat? Sounds like a movie...

That's friggin' crazy.

[Jeff Higgins]

I was watching some Discovery Channel, or National Geographic special, or something like that some 15-20 years ago with the kids that was all about some place with an unusually high rate of tiger attacks. One of the things the tigers had learned to do, and mommy tigers actually were passing on to the youngins, was to swim out on either the local lake or river and attack folks in their fishing boats. The proverbial "fish in a barrel" to a tiger.

I'm not saying these black bears learned to do that, or are "smarter than the average bear", but they certainly are not stupid. They show a very high level of problem solving ability, more so than most wild animals.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by RWebb

- it is more complicated than you realize

those were not ordinary bears, and the boaters were not just fisherman

those were special attack bears, attached to Seal Team Seven

the "fishermen" were actually an Al Queda sleeper cell team, sizing up how best to carry out a terror attack on Canuckian timber resources

i knew that ! but i am not at liberty to divulge any information but my hat size and my SUMO waist belt size.



i can say this(off the record)............they were polar bears painted black for stealth secrecy. the coca-cola bear family was involved. baby fur seals were also used in this clandestine operation to guard all escape routes AND THEY HAD CLUBS!

[GWN7]

Bear attack in Montana, 1 dead 2 injuried

Bear tore thru 3 tents killing one and biting two others....

The Associated Press: Bear attack in Montana leaves 1 dead, 2 injured

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by GWN7

Bear attack in Montana, 1 dead 2 injuried

Bear tore thru 3 tents killing one and biting two others....

The Associated Press: Bear attack in Montana leaves 1 dead, 2 injured

I bet they didn't have a really big dog.
I'm just sayin .....

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I was watching some Discovery Channel, or National Geographic special, or something like that some 15-20 years ago with the kids that was all about some place with an unusually high rate of tiger attacks. One of the things the tigers had learned to do, and mommy tigers actually were passing on to the youngins, was to swim out on either the local lake or river and attack folks in their fishing boats. The proverbial "fish in a barrel" to a tiger.

I'm not saying these black bears learned to do that, or are "smarter than the average bear", but they certainly are not stupid. They show a very high level of problem solving ability, more so than most wild animals.

One of the PCA members that drives down from Anchorage Alaska every year for the PCA Porsche Parade had an interesting story. His biggest worry about driving across parts of Canada was Grizzly bears. He was saying that if you have a breakdown the Grizzly will see a car as a canned human meal. He said there were reports of cars that had broken down and a Grizzly will just rip the door off the car and eat the human inside. Since he is an American in Canada there is no way to bring a gun for protection so he is just a meal. He knew his 911 was no match for a Grizzly.

I don’t know if he was serious or just BS-ing but he sure sounded like he was serious.

[lane912]

Originally Posted by GWN7

Bear attack on Vancouver Is. It was on the news. Guy said there was no food or garbage around.

Two men fight off black bear attack at campsite

Remember you are food

1-do not taunt the animals
2-do not taunt the animals
3-do not taunt the animals
remember those simple rules and you should be ok, wait I forgot..
4-better to have a firearm and not need it than only having a gaph hook and a filet knife.

[Evans, Marv]

Grizzly's aren't the only ones capable of tearing into cars. In the park where I worked during the '60s we used to have the local bears smash windows and peel back doors on cars to get inside. These were cars & vans people would leave over night when they went on hikes. It was a good demonstration of how powerful they were.

[GH85Carrera]

Here is a less lethal attack

Bear gets into home, eats and grabs stuffed bear - Yahoo! News

[Jeff Higgins]

What a shame about the campers. I couldn't imagine going on vacation and having it wind up like that. My heart goes out to them and their families.

Camping in bear country is very serious business. I have to wonder how many of Yellowstone's visitors really understand that. Hell, I have to wonder how many of its rangers even understand that anymore. I simply cannot imagine going into bear country unarmed, yet the modern mentality surrounding places like Yellowstone is that it is not only prudent to do so, but even mandatory to do so. Thank God the law against arming one's self in national parks has been repealed. Even at that, I'll betcha a new hat no one in that camp was armed. Granted, it would not have helped the first guy, but if hubby had been armed, the bear might have been persuaded to stop when it went after his wife.

Anyway, maybe I'm a bit overly keyed in to this issue. Maybe I'm making more of it than there is. That said, this line from the article really stood out for me:

The latest attack left residents and visitors to this national park satellite community on edge. Many people were carrying bear spray — a pepper-based deterrent more commonly seen in Yellowstone's backcountry than on the streets of Cooke City.

Bear spray my ass. While I'm sure some might be carrying bear spray, I'm also relatively certain that at least an equal number, if not far more of Cooke City's residents are carrying firearms. Why would that not be mentioned? Why does that seem to be so taboo these days?

Seems this mentality keeps costing people their lives. I'm not saying a firearm is some magic cure-all that will absolutely keep one safe in bear country, but they certainly don't hurt. They provide a very good option, a very good "last line of defense", should it all go wrong. I think it is incredibly irresponsible for anyone, much less the authorities that most folks look to for guidance, to discourage the carrying of firearms in bear country.