Time to buy an AR-15?

[JavaBrewer]

HK, FN SCAR, or the M-14 (M1A-Scout)? Would love to add a .308 someday (sooner perhaps) but not anxious to shell out for the ammo. Any reason to not go with the scout (my first choice)?

[Jim Bremner]

[QUOTE=JavaBrewer;6954554]HK, FN SCAR, or the M-14 (M1A-Scout)? Would love to add a .308 someday (sooner perhaps) but not anxious to shell out for the ammo. Any reason to not go with the scout (my first choice)?[/

What range are you wanting? I have the full size M1a and it is a lazer. shorter barrel will be louder! and might slow the bullet downs some. The range might drop as well.

[ODDJOB UNO]

[QUOTE=Jim Bremner;6954587]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

HK, FN SCAR, or the M-14 (M1A-Scout)? Would love to add a .308 someday (sooner perhaps) but not anxious to shell out for the ammo. Any reason to not go with the scout (my first choice)?[/

What range are you wanting? I have the full size M1a and it is a lazer. shorter barrel will be louder! and might slow the bullet downs some. The range might drop as well.

its all ABOUT what YOU want it for.

my springfield custom shop super match w/mcmillian stock, 4.5 x 14 mil dot illiminated reticle with QD scope mt, which since has had arrington accuracy FINE TUNE IT cost me more than i ever want to add up the receipts. but its insane accurate scoped or iron sighted. i mean 1000 match insane accurate. i dont take it hunting unless i plan on sitting in my hide all day. humping it is a PITA, and on the quad its too big for my case, so if i put it on my quad i have to put it into its big hard case which negates getting to it quickly.

my socom 16 totally sadlak'd and running match sights instead of goofy ghost ring, is also a tack driver but it looses velocity because of short barrel. lets call it a very good 500-600 yd spoon . have nailed elk with it, and it puts them down hard. running or standing. its more of a brush spoon and it goes on the front handlebars of quad as a "snap shot" spoon. packs plenty of punch. also went with me into big bear country into jellystone, i am not hunting them. if i was i wouldnt use it, only because i have bigger medicine for them if i got a tag. in the event of a brown bear jumping my azz, i use 168gr federal BTHP. YOU DO NOT WANT TO USE ANY HEAVIER GRAIN BULLET on M-14's unless its dedicated to 175gr or 180gr. ask me how i know?? because you will have a FTE when yer extractor goes spinning off into space. and then yer REALLY SCREWED IF A BEAR IS CHARGING!

there isnt a bear alive on this planet that can take 6 rds of 168gr BTHP's and live to tell about it. and thats the hole point, if charged, i want ALL THE MARBLES IN MY BASKET. also i brought the 45/70 with buffalo bore 405 grs.

the scout is longer and will do the same thing with the samo parts available for it to simply build it into a tack driver. just look at sadlakmfg.com

my younger son bought the M1-loaded with black stock. ended up getting a ex USA shooting team mcmillian f/glass stock for it. bedded the hole enchilada by arringtonaccuracy.com here. its a hell of a shooter with 147 and 168 grs. national match flashhider,trigger job, hand fitted match sights, match sling,sadlak goodies.


simple secret right from the horseys mouth phil arrington(arringtonaccuracy.com) for m-14 accuracy. put yer moola to do the hula here:

1) f/glass stock bedded

2) match sights hand fitted(hand fitted IS a big deal) so they always go click

3) trigger job


with that yer ready for any game and any match. and yer LEGAL match shooting.

hunting/match shoots w/ detachable scope=long barrel

brush hunting w/out scope or maybe a red dot=shorter barrels

shooting thru walls or buildings in iraq or afghan=either barrel.

i love 'em. once ya suck up yer huevos and take the plunge and LEARN ALL ABOUT THEM and tear them down to the firing pin..............you will be a happy camper. once ya do it, its not so complicated. samo as a M-1 carbine, just bigger.


buy all tools from sadlak or brownells or arrington accuracy and yer set to go.


hell most matches are a max of 50rds + 5 sighters=55rds. so what ya spent $55 bucks for a day of fun with 3 of yer amigos as a team.


or buy crap surplus 147 ammo, buy some federal 168gr BTHP bulk bullets, buy a dillon bullet puller, and pull the 147 bullet out and seat the 168gr bullet and ya got MESSIKAN MATCH AMMO!


but heres a breakdown in the field under combat conditions(worst of the worst).

HK G-3/91= NO tools to take down to firing pin. NONE!

M-14=tools

FN=tools


it comes down to what fits ya best. and how much moola to do the hula.


HK PSG-1=a mere $12,000 bucks + zeiss scope

the baddest M-14 on the planet= i would guess btwn $4-$6000 + scope

FN= i dont know so i wont say.



each are unique in their own way.

[JavaBrewer]

200-300 yards max. My son and I are considering a hog hunt sometime next year - total novices to hunting other than rabbit and fowl. The gun would also serve as a backup defense, plinker, etc...so perfer SA.

Feel free to PM me recommendations for a hog hunting outfit that's suitable for beginners. Thanks!

[JavaBrewer]

Thanks UNO - knew you would be a wealth of info here. Would like the entry cost around $1700.

[ODDJOB UNO]

well a .308 will fer sure do a number on a hawg. for a kid, maybe a 30/30 lever, a .243 bolt ,.270 bolt, a .44 mag lever ya didnt say how old???


buy a scout/socom, buy the tools, buy some ammo, and see if he likes it. if not then try some of the ones i mentioned.


you fer sure will like the scout or socom. great brush guns and they pack a wallop. you can scope either very simple.


the FN comes in shorty barrels also. i think its called the "CONGO" so it must be a gorilla killa!

[JavaBrewer]

Zack is 15 and loves big bang guns..... .357 full boat no problems - hell he loves shooting 12 gauge 3" magnum slugs through the 870. I run out of $$ before he runs out of youth. He won't have any problems with the .308.

[flipper35]

Why not a Mini14 if you want a .223?

[ODDJOB UNO]

oh hell yeah $1700 bucks will get cha in to play.


watch gunbroker/gunsamerica/sturmgewehr.com/and m-14forum.com.


have a FFL local notified of yer impending(next 1/2 hour) purchase, so whomever ya buy it from can swap info and all is legal beagle.


most of these are NOT SHOT ALOT! unless a crazy foaming at the mouth match shooter/hunter owns them. and then they are treated(most of them) with kid gloves and they look brand new despite being used.

you would think both of mine are NEW! mucho TLC and they always go bang when called upon.

buy only checkmate magazines or springfield armory.


dillon has 5 rd 20 rd 30rd mags and stainless. the stainless mags are wayyyyy coool. springfield sells the 10 rd mags.

on 5 rd mags you got "flush mount" and box style(hang down). these are your hunting mags. the flush unless modified will ONLY handle 4rds and (1) rd in pipe. dont ask me why.



the mags should ol poopy head get elected....................will be worth their weight in GOLD!



so just have xmas freeking today and buy the damn thing, the tools, a 1000rds of ammo, a cleaning kit, and a boatload of 20rd 30rd mags and YOU WILL THANK ME!


to know me is to love me.


bring it home,tear it all apart, clean lube everything as per manual, buy 6 pak of beer for targets, some ice, and go blast 200rds and have fun! tear it all apart, clean/lube everything, and its ready to go.


then wait a 1000 years to get drawn FOR ELK!

[ODDJOB UNO]

15.................well then buy a SOCOM AND A SCOUT!


LOP(length of pull )can be changed if needed.



he will mow yer lawn,wax yer car 10 times,clean the pool, his room the garage,the entire damn house and get straight freeking "A's" to go shoot one of these trust me.


warn him this aint no wambee pampee spoon. if he "limp dicks" it and holds it loose.........it WILL SLAP HIM HARD! sooo.........warn him up front, have him hold it tight in shoulder and with his hand and all will be good.


practice match sling techniques and it will even be easier.


just buy 147 grain surplus for plinking and dinking. buy 168gr for hunting. NO FMJ rounds allowed anywhere for hunting its da LAW! and YES RANGER DANGER WILL CHECK!


p.s. i am sure HAWGS have been nailed with .223's. but ME? after seeing some of the TEXASS HAWGS-EVERYTHING IZ BIG IN TEXASS! i would not want one cornered, and i would NOT want one charging me. NOTHING IS GONNA TAKE 6rds(legal 5rd mag and (1) in pipe) of .308 and keep moving very long, unless ya azz shoot it, and then ya gots yerself a WORLD OF POO ON YER HANDS!

[JavaBrewer]

I've been watching Calguns for the M1A scout. Would be nice to buy in-state private party so I won't have to pay out of state transfer fees and taxes. I've seen some for ~ $1400 range but they go quickly.

Check my profile - in Cali there is no such thing as a >10 magazine

[ODDJOB UNO]

they are a good investment. they work good out of the box. they work insane with a lil time and effort and good ammo. your secret reloads or federal match 168grBTHP.


they will take down anything ya gots in kalif., well until the earth cracks open and terry-dactils come flying out along with t-rexs and mastadons and sabre toothed tigers.

you cant go wrong with any of the ones mentioned. if your son doesnt like it, think about a model 7 remington .308. the hot one to get is the remington model 7KS out of their custom shop. or even a low budget remington model 700 varmint barrel(heavy barrel). these are scarfed up fast because thats whats used for sniper platforms all the time. ditch the wood stock for a mcmillen and bed it, scope it to taste and yer off to the races with a damn nice 1/2 MOA rifle. perfect for lazy days nailing gophers/praire dawgs at insane ranges over and over. and best of all...........diane feinstein cant take it away from you.

another hot poo thing to do to rem 700's is buy the detachable 5rd magwell. and now ya have a mag fed 700 in .308.

if yer asking for more...........then the .300 win mag. but i will warn you this has made grown men cry and given a lot of "SCOPE RING" to eyeballs due to recoil. better hang on to this one or its gonna be an OWWWWW-EEEEEEEE!

[lane912]

Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO

they are a good investment. they work good out of the box. they work insane with a lil time and effort and good ammo. your secret reloads or federal match 168grBTHP.


they will take down anything ya gots in kalif., well until the earth cracks open and terry-dactils come flying out along with t-rexs and mastadons and sabre toothed tigers.

you cant go wrong with any of the ones mentioned. if your son doesnt like it, think about a model 7 remington .308. the hot one to get is the remington model 7KS out of their custom shop. or even a low budget remington model 700 varmint barrel(heavy barrel). these are scarfed up fast because thats whats used for sniper platforms all the time. ditch the wood stock for a mcmillen and bed it, scope it to taste and yer off to the races with a damn nice 1/2 MOA rifle. perfect for lazy days nailing gophers/praire dawgs at insane ranges over and over. and best of all...........diane feinstein cant take it away from you.

another hot poo thing to do to rem 700's is buy the detachable 5rd magwell. and now ya have a mag fed 700 in .308.

if yer asking for more...........then the .300 win mag. but i will warn you this has made grown men cry and given a lot of "SCOPE RING" to eyeballs due to recoil. better hang on to this one or its gonna be an OWWWWW-EEEEEEEE!

remm. 700 26" heavy barrel and trigger job in .308-
drives tacs all day long
next thing i do to it is the mag well set up-

[ODDJOB UNO]

the magwells and mags are avail at brownells/midway etc. make sure you know if its a short or long action 700 to order correctly. they even make them for the WIN MAG family.


see them alot(mag fed) on ROBARS and MCMILLIANS mega zoomy USGI bolt designated marksmen models in various calibers.


my zoomy uber idea of the century, to support our armed services is a UNIVERSAL MAGAZINE that fits a rem 700 bolt .308 and a M-14!


that way both the rem 700 and M-14 can play together ALL DAY/NIGHT/WEEK/MONTH/YEAR LONG and be cozy happy happy joy joy with interchangeable magazines.


what a concept huh??????????



we will call it the OJU "HAPPY MAG"! 5's, 10's, 20's, 30's what yer pleasure?

[id10t]

Re: The FN-FAL/L1A1

For $800 on up you can get a great shooting FAL built on a parts kit, around 1300 you hit the SAR4800 (factory Imbel made post 89 ban, pre94 ban), around 1500 the SAR48 (pre 89 import ban) starts, and other Real Deal pre '89 ban imports at 2k and up.

For $500 you can get one of the new production 22 conversion kits, which makes shooting it much more affordable.

Receivers - Original licensed manufacture is best - Imbel most common, but there are others out there. For US made, most runs of DSA are good, the DCI/Coonan ones are good. The Williams "alumabomb" aluminum ones that shouldn't be used for most rifle cartridges (but would be great for a 22 conversion). Century, which may be hit or miss, and many Century guns were built on Imbel receivers. And remember - on the FAL/L1A1, the *upper* receiver is the registered part, although the lower could be marked with a completely different number.

Inch (L1A1) vs. Metric - all functional differences can be enabled/disabled by swapping parts - no last shot BHO on the inch, metric has it, swap parts out and you got it. Real difference is ergonomics, I prefer the metric. Try one of each. Inch guns can mostly use metric mags, metric guns metric mags only. Some Century (and other I guess...) inch type builds are built on receivers that are metric cut for mags. Metric mags are plenty common and less expensive than inch, but that gap is closing since there are new production rifles that take metric FAL mags (RRA LAR8, etc).

US parts - you need 7 if you have a muzzle device. Mag bodies, floor plates, followers. Barrel, receiver, muzzle device, gas piston, handguards, pistol grip, butt stock, hammer, trigger, sear, charging handle are all the easy choices. Pick 7. NOT the selector, which may go to all 3 positions - which is useless since the hammer will follow the bolt since you don't have a sear cut to hold the sear. But, it is better to make your selector into a "2 safe position" unit, or order a semi-only selector. Or be prepared to deal with unknowing law folk and/or range fudds.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

Time to buy an AR-15?

Must be time to buy one, or steal one.

My RRA was stolen last week during a burglary.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Must be time to buy one, or steal one.

My RRA was stolen last week during a burglary.

Oh man, that sucks. Any chance of recovering it? Do you have the serial no? I had a Commander on consignment at a gun store that got broken into and robbed. The store paid me through their insurance and then the guns were recovered, but tied up in evidence forever. No idea what happened to the guns.

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by id10t

Re: The FN-FAL/L1A1

For $800 on up you can get a great shooting FAL built on a parts kit, around 1300 you hit the SAR4800 (factory Imbel made post 89 ban, pre94 ban), around 1500 the SAR48 (pre 89 import ban) starts, and other Real Deal pre '89 ban imports at 2k and up.

For $500 you can get one of the new production 22 conversion kits, which makes shooting it much more affordable.

Receivers - Original licensed manufacture is best - Imbel most common, but there are others out there. For US made, most runs of DSA are good, the DCI/Coonan ones are good. The Williams "alumabomb" aluminum ones that shouldn't be used for most rifle cartridges (but would be great for a 22 conversion). Century, which may be hit or miss, and many Century guns were built on Imbel receivers. And remember - on the FAL/L1A1, the *upper* receiver is the registered part, although the lower could be marked with a completely different number.

Inch (L1A1) vs. Metric - all functional differences can be enabled/disabled by swapping parts - no last shot BHO on the inch, metric has it, swap parts out and you got it. Real difference is ergonomics, I prefer the metric. Try one of each. Inch guns can mostly use metric mags, metric guns metric mags only. Some Century (and other I guess...) inch type builds are built on receivers that are metric cut for mags. Metric mags are plenty common and less expensive than inch, but that gap is closing since there are new production rifles that take metric FAL mags (RRA LAR8, etc).

US parts - you need 7 if you have a muzzle device. Mag bodies, floor plates, followers. Barrel, receiver, muzzle device, gas piston, handguards, pistol grip, butt stock, hammer, trigger, sear, charging handle are all the easy choices. Pick 7. NOT the selector, which may go to all 3 positions - which is useless since the hammer will follow the bolt since you don't have a sear cut to hold the sear. But, it is better to make your selector into a "2 safe position" unit, or order a semi-only selector. Or be prepared to deal with unknowing law folk and/or range fudds.

"RANGE FUDDS" hahahahaha LMFAO coffee thru the nose!!!!!!!!!!!!


man that was FUNNY!

there are so many ignant(ignorant) people re: "ASSAULT WEAPONS" its pathetic. my HK-91 w/a 5 rd mag is no different than a remington 30.06 semi auto, except it has an evil bayo lug, a pistole grip and an evil flash hider. i find it very difficult to hurt somebody with a bayo lug/a flash hider/ or a pistol grip.

that was some good FN info. i am tempted very tempted to buy a DSA. i would like just an "issue" version, maybe a scope mount. thats all. i dont expect it to be a tack driver.

send some pictures of FN's.

[Rednine11]

I have a Colt Match grade and a Smith & Wesson M&P
My opinion is the Colt is a better rifle.

[MotoSook]

AR's are like Legos. Easy to build and parts are plenty. There is no big magic about these and the majority of "quality" is all marketing. A $200 barrel will do just as well as a $400 barrel. There are more good receivers than bad ones and most brands get them made by the same place!

There are a lot of players out there and price competition is good. I will never by a complete AR again, and would never spend $1000+ for an AR no matter what brand was stamped on it. I've built enough to know the above is true enough from an engineer's perspective.

My latest is a .308 AR. Since MAGPUL came out with their .308 magazines it's much easier and cheaper to build a good reliable .308 AR.

Aim Surplus often sells lower receivers for about $70. They are good forged receivers by aero machine or spikes most times. Buy a few and save the ffl cost. Then build one. Save the others for a later build when you have a specific configuration.

If you want a piston AR...it's easy these days. Just about anything you want is available for the platform.

A gov. profile carbine $175 barrel (try Daniel Defense) and a good bolt group (Daniel, BCM, Spike..) for $140 will be a great start that won't have you wanting more unless you just want to throw money away. Hell most guys don't need more than a $110 unlined barrel. Not like it's going to shoot full auto for thousands of rounds.

The market is just insane for this platform. Don't fall for it. Colt? Noveske? Sig? Most guys can build as good a rifle for the less.