Stranded - assistance please!

[Grady Clay]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

I'm NOT kidding, whack the solenoid....

Yes.
When the car cooled overnight, the previously hot, stuck solenoid started working again.
Park where you can get under and ‘whack’ the solenoid.

Fueling can be a problem.
Push-start the car.


When you get home, replace the starter/solenoid assembly with a Bosch Factory rebuilt unit.
Get the 1.5 hp version. Heavier but will crank anything.

Always replace unknown batteries on ‘general principle’.

Best,
Grady

[Joe Bob]

SR 68x is the 1.5hp version

[twin plugged targa]

Starter is a new one!
Will check if I can buy a trolley jack but would rather buy a Porsche one!
Why should the system need rewiring or modifying?

[twin plugged targa]

Just remembered that this also seemed to happen last night when engine cold/cool
Although like most things will not rule it out 100%
Thanks bob

[Joe Bob]

There are no NEW Bosch starters for SCs and Carreras. They are ALL re-manufactured/rebuilt. The cheaper the "rebuild" the bigger the profit.

If a starter's solenoid tests out when it's cold, they don't open it up to see if the solenoid has enough grease or if the grease inside is cooked or not. It's not their money that is spent removing and replacing the starter, it's yours. Hot start issues have been around for years.

If you had a multimeter you could measure the drop in voltage at the starter's solenoid.

Most reman companies will gladly exchange the starter but not labor. You asked for advice, this is mine. It's based on 38 years of screwing around with German cars....I've had this problem MANY times.

Reminiscing......

3-4 years ago, I had an issue such as this on a 58 "A"....but cold start, it ended up being a bent starter shaft. Rare but that happens. The cause was a worn bushing in the trans where shaft pushed into.....it dragged down the voltage enough to suspect the solenoid.

I was able to get the bushing out with a dental pick.....what a PITA.

[twin plugged targa]

Thanks Grady and joebob

[techman1]

Please put a meter on the battery and start the car. Record the voltage. Leave the car running, turn on the lights and other equipment, check the voltage and record the results.

Let us know the first (light load, should be charging) and second (the heavy load, should still show charging)

Your comments re the after using the lights at night, flickering headlights, and dash light symptoms seem to point to a charging issue. Cause? Could be grounds, like suggested, loose wire, or alternator close to giving up.

[twin plugged targa]

Just to let know, I just arrived home, S France
I purchased a new battery and jumper cables this morning and 8hrs later-home
I stopped once for gas with no problem
I will retain the old battery
-JoeBob did not mean to doubt you - I will def. look into the hot start relay as it may be a good mod. to protect from future issues
Is it better then to order the more powerfull starter ,
motor or work with this one?
I will find out details from the mechanic tomorrow as to where this one came from.
Thanks all
Ben

[Joe Bob]

Check what starter you have...it could be an SR68X.....if it is, pull it and take it to a reputable alternator/starter shop. Have them go thru it.

Working one on one with the rebuilder is preferable to buying one off the shelf. You'll spend a few more bucks on it but save the headache.

Once you have a known good starter and battery, you can check your charging circuit.

A GOOD multimeter on the battery terminals will tell you a lot. Those cheapo plug in the ciggy lighter are not accurate. I tested one and it was off by .5 volts.

12.5v at rest
12.8-13.5 at idle
13.5-14v at 2500 rpms is a good thing.

Glad ya made it home.....

[Superman]

The signal from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid runs, I believe, through the 14-pin connector at the engine compartment fuse box. Open the deck lid and look in the lower left corner. Should be a brown 14-pin connector. The starter conductor is, I believe, yellow. If there is a bad connection there, you will have intermittent starter-not-worky problems.

[twin plugged targa]

Thanks JoeBob and superman, just having a beer after the 'long run'
Final part of trip had to deal with evening 'rush hour' with twisty wet highway (autoroute) and a car I do not know -at 80-90mph .
The car does have a lot of electrical gremlins which I will address in another post.
Know it is home and dry, I can take each one at my leisure (and my controlled expense) After a £6,000 (about $9000USD) shop bill, I need to get my priorities right.
I did get a new dual out Fabspeed muffler, new front and rear brake pads and new front rotors, plus whilst engine out, serviced, valves adjusted, new plugs, filters etc. Plus all injetcors tested, 3 new injectors, 6 new injector plastic blocks.
The car had a load of Japanese emissions parts which were not connected, so removed and tuned.
The advance retard mechanism was not working properly, etc etc.
- Am going to drop it into my local French mechanic to check out the engine tuning and try to address the more minor issues myself (with some help )
Thanks again!

[twin plugged targa]

Update
Car is running EXCELLENT (motor/timing/mìxture) after installing new Permatune + coil and OEM porsche shielded plug cables!
She runs SWEET!

However mechanic cleaned battery terminals and all associated connectors and figured he had fixed the non start problem.
Being sceptical I kept the old (good) battery and jumper cables in the car.
This morning cold, the car would not turn over.
I heard the fuel pump and dash lights illuminated - voltage on battery 12.4V
I parralleled the spare battery (behind the seats) and she started fine - although there was a split second hesitation.
Stopped engine immediately, detached spare battery and turned key - engine started perfectly, turning over fast and furious!
Tried it several times and could not replicate this issue.

- Joe Bob I now have the time and energy to remove the starter motor and replace or have checked (although not sure if there are any places around here who will check these out)
It is possible I have a worn bushing/bent shaft as you had?
- Or should I just fork out the bucks and get the 1.5HP starter you quoted earlier?
Is this available from our hosts or elsewhere?
Is there a brand name - maybe I can get similar more locally in Europe for speed and hassle factors.
(the French customs held up my last USA used purchase in Paris for weeks and charged around +30% to release it!)

It seems with extra 'Umph' of charged or new battery it is enough to resolve the non starting issue
Or alternatively I could backdate my 930 to twin battery!
Only kidding!
Opinions welcome

-Joebob I never disbelieved you, it was just the engine had to get 'sorted' 1st before the non start issue
Thereafter I have a huge trail of jobs to attack!
cheers Ben

My current office view- taken 2 minutes ago!
Hmmm.... now did I engage the hand(emergency) brake??

[andyt11]

Just wanted to say "WHAT A GREAT VIEW"

I could post a picture from my office window but you'd be disappointed!

[Joe Bob]

A rebuilt Bosch SR68X should do it....

[twin plugged targa]

Thanks Joe Bob - will chase down the local Bosch dealer/distributer to me and get one.
Are they easy to install?
I have a decent 5 ton lift and axle stands - do I need to dismantle much/anything to get to it?
Cheers
Ben

PS that is only my winter view my summer office view is much more glamourous/exotic

[Joe Bob]

Getting to the bolts can be an issue. The one on top may be an allen head.

Don't forget to disconnect the battery.

[rnln]

For me, and many other people on this board, it was the famous "yellow wire" from ignition key to the starter. It ran along the left hand side in the engine bay (it it's the same as 911). Voltage on this wire show only 7-8 volts during the problem, and usually when the engine gets hot. Normally, it should have around 12v. I tested multiple times by running a separate wire from the ignition end to the engine bay end of it. Started like a charm everytime it happend.
If you search on "yellow wire", you see a ton of info.

note: I replaced the starter, problem went away for several months and came right back.

Originally Posted by twin plugged targa

Help!!
Stranded AGAIN!!!!
Now in champagne region of France
Took car to garage this morning and we could not replicate problem
Drove car about 1hr to and from garage no problem
Car was stopped and started about 30-40 times testing and retesting and using the car
Drove to the cross channel tunnel 3 hrs drive
Stoppedand started several times again no problem
Drove from Calais in thedark about 3 hrs and stopped for gas and car would not start
To confirm what I mean starter motor would not engage or turn the engine
Checked voltage on battery again and it is 12.3 volts
If I try to start with lights on (I would not normally do this) the lights disappear and of course no other starting symptoms - no sounds and no action
I did notice the headlamps on low beam were not constant beam - slight flicker
Plus the rev tach gauge is dimly lit and disappears completely when I go to high beam- related?
The battery was load tested again at the garage (after being left on trickle charge overnight) and he said it was fine however the green indicator was not lit on the top of the battery

I managed to bump start the car in reverse on my own (there was a good gradient) and engine fired up no problem and made it safe to a hotel for night 11pm here
Tomorrow I will buy a new battery and some jumper cables I can either parallel using old battery or get help from Somone to start or just. Bump start it again
I am parked on a slope over night!!!
Sorry this is a bit long but want to tryand give you all details as sometimes it it is something insignificant that causes the huge problems!
Hope you can help
Have another 600 miles to go tomorrow to get home!
Thanks to any help possible!
Ben
Ps I will check again in 20 mins for replies then again tomorrow morning
Thank god for IPhones and PP BBS

[twin plugged targa]

So Rnln - do I have to replace the complete run of 'yellow' cable? (will read up on it now)

Mine started as a warm/hot non start, but this morning the car was cold - zero degrees C.

- I am going to spend some time on the car tomorrow morning and do some trouble shooting.

It is definately one of those mind teasers as it is intermittant and seems to go away with a fully charged battery or doubled amperage (battery parralelled)

It is not solely a hot non start problem.

However, the problem 'might' have been there before as the UK garage mechanic replaced the original starter motor for a reason!

Always possible, but unlikely that the car had a dodgey original starter motor and then another dodgey replacement starter motor?

I also have to troubleshoot my horn as a school bus almost ran into me this afternoon with me yelling out of the window to 'STOP!' (absence of horn) - perhaps I should have yelled 'ARETER!'

Cheers
Ben

[Joe Bob]

Before replacing the wire, put a meter on it to see what the voltage is....

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by rnln

For me, and many other people on this board, it was the famous "yellow wire" from ignition key to the starter. It ran along the left hand side in the engine bay (it it's the same as 911). Voltage on this wire show only 7-8 volts during the problem, and usually when the engine gets hot. Normally, it should have around 12v. I tested multiple times by running a separate wire from the ignition end to the engine bay end of it. Started like a charm everytime it happend.
If you search on "yellow wire", you see a ton of info.

note: I replaced the starter, problem went away for several months and came right back.

+1. For me the voltage drop was on the connectors on either the 14-pin engine bay plug (which was really ugly-looking) or the bulkhead connector from the ignition switch to the harness. Figured this out when my intermittent fault became solid - and pretty much everything else (ground straps, starter, ignition switch) had already been done. Disturbing the original ignition switch connector for a new one made my problem go away for a few months too - but the original has been in the daily driver for the last two years, nothing wrong with it...

At least look at the connectors. If they look oxidized, clean the pins/sockets with fine wet'n'dry paper, tweak tighter with long-nose pliers or spread the pins slightly with a screwdriver, re-connect.