G50 Clutch Bleed Update...

[north_van]

Originally Posted by azhodge

anyone that says bleeding the clutch slave cylinder on a G50 is easy, is a bloody lying idiot. or a fool....

Actually, I said that the steps were easy to follow, not easy to perform It is only the second time I've done it in 2 years, and I'm not sure if it got any easier this second time. It is a messy job, too. But... now feels like my clutch has six pack abs.

One tip that made it a lot easier for me was to place the car on jack stands just high enough so I could get my creeper underneath the car and not bang my nose on the bottom of the trans. Maybe an inch of clearance there for the shnoz-ola. This allowed me to easily get my arms around to "hug" the trans and feel around for the rubber bleed nipple cover with one hand, and pop it off an put the box end of a really short (3" or so) 7mm wrench around the bleed screw with the other. Then pop on the drain tubing and crank the wrench about 1/4 to 1/3 turn to start the bleeding.

But again, having a really short box wrench will be your ace in the hole there, because there isn't that much clearance.

I could then easily roll around to quickly go from the up/down/up/down clutch motions, and then roll back over to the bleed screw to tighten it off without draining the brake fluid reservoir below the clutch master cylinder intake. I use the "dry" Motive pressure bleeder method.

[echecsqueen]

Originally Posted by KTL

north_van is correct that the clutch pedal will not return on its own when you're bleeding the system.
It'll fall to the floor when you push on it and you have to pull it back up.

Bleeding the clutch is a sucky job for sure. But it's a heck of a lot easier when you remove the slave from atop the transmission. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth, but it's worth it in my opinion. Because trying to get at the super tiny bleed nipple way up high, by feel since you can't see it, is a complete pain in the ass

It definitely helps to have teeny tiny hands. ShadowJack helped me bleed mine and the only thing I was good for was attaching that tiny piece.

[DWeg1998]

Great thread, thanks all. I flushed one 750 ml bottle through the system and got out an almost equal amount of black who knows how old fluid.

Had an annoyance as I had to do the whole procedure twice, after having lowered the car and put everything away, as I came to find the pedal wasn't returning up after the first bleed. Had some air burst that somehow got in the system which thrusted right out with the Motive on the second bleed.

The part about needing a smaller length 7 mm box wrench is right on as my angled box end wrench was too long.

Only advice I would add is that I found it easiest coming at the valve on my roller, up from the back of the car, but then my head out some closer to the driver side. With some gymnastics I was able to see the valve and fit my hands through all of the obstructions, without removal of any lines or tires.

End result for me is a clutch that takes maybe half the effort to depress and the friction point area is expanded making for much more forgiving, smooth shifting. G50 is very nice now!

[burgermeister]

I have developed a way to do this hateful job in a more reasonable way. A wrench with an articulating head. There is an initial adjustment to fit the wrench to the bleeder screw hex orientation on the particular car it will be used on, takes about 5 minutes. Bleeding / flushing is only moderately more involved than a brake caliper.

I shot this video with my right hand holding the camera and my left doing the flushing. The garage was about 32 degrees, and the vinyl tubing quite stiff as a result.

https://youtu.be/EVdrimdXcOI






A setscrew and 3 reference marks 10 deg apart are used to adjust the wrench to the bleeder screw hex. This allows the wrench to be in a position where it can be used to crack the screw open, as well as close it, with the handle locked straight. Available space for articulating a reasonable length wrench is a little less than 30 degrees, so a fixed 12 point would be sub-optimal for 60% of the cars ...

[KTL]

Cool wrench!!!!!!!!!

Another thing I recall from doing this is you only need to open the bleeder a tiny bit. Open it too much and you get fluid past the threads and it leaks all over the the top of the transmission.

[dyerkes]

Burgermeister - any intention of make more of your tools for others to simplify clutch bleeding?

Regards,
David

[safe]

Bleed my clutch 10 times before I realised it was a bad master. Can't remember that it was that bad, pretty easy I would say. But my G50 is in a 69 shell so it might be a different story.

[jlex]

Bled mine a few years ago using a vacuum style bleeder hooked up to my compressor. Kit came with a bottle that sat atop the MC reservoir and held about a qt of fluid so I didn't have to worry about it running dry. Much dark fluid removed.
Had to replace the slave cylinder a couple years later after it leaked fluid over the garage floor. What a *****.... the actuating rod is under pressure so to mount it back onto the transmission and align the mounting bolts is a real job. Don't remove that slave unless you really have to! If you do replace it, replace the short flexible line that feeds it as well. I suspect it can swell on the inside and restrict the travel of the fluid to and from the slave just like a brake line/caliper restriction.

[Ralph3.]

Any tricks to replacing the slave and the supply line? I have a new slave and a FVD s/s line waiting for me to install. Can the line be installed after the slave is attached? Both ends of the line are fixed so I am not sure how everything gets tightened.

I bled the slave when I bled the brakes after shock installation, used an old craftsman 9/32 box end ignition wrench on the bleeder. Since then I purchased a couple 7mm combination wrenches, one that is 6 point hopeing for a tighter fit on the bleeder.

[KTL]

Good advice from jlex on replacing the rubber flex line. I suspect many of these cars have not had their clutch line occasionally bled (or ever for that matter) and the fluid in there is nasty like he said. A swelled flex line can definitely cause you problems. A friend of mine had a swelled line on the front caliper of his '98 Ford truck and it caused a dragging brake problem. The caliper wouldn't release after releasing the brake pedal. Granted the system pressure in hydraulic brakes is much higher than in a hydraulic clutch. But the same operating principles still apply.

The flex line isn't fixed at both ends. The flex line should have a female end that connects to a steel tube nut fitting at the chassis. On the slave side of the flex line should be a tube nut fitting that connects to the slave.

I would connect the slave cylinder to the flex line with the slave removed from the top of the transmission. But don't fully tighten the tube nuts. Just snug them and then place the slave up on top of the trans. Snugging them will allow the positioning of slave atop the transmission to "self adjust" the alignment of the flex line. Once you have the slave up there, try to tighten the tube nuts a bit more to secure the orientation of the flex line.

These tube nuts do not need to be gorilla tightened. They're just like metal brake lines in that they are flare fittings and the seal is created by the mating surfaces. The mating surfaces are the shape of the line flare and the machined surface inside the slave or flex line female port. So they don't need to be very tight. Actually, over-tightening the tube nuts can crush the back side of the formed flare and damage it, distorting the shape and potentially causing a leak.

[jlex]

[KTL]

Drink up!!!!!

[Ralph3.]

These babies....

[jlex]

Yep, those look like the instruments of torture.
That piston has to be compressed against a receiver on the clutch fork while you're bolting the slave onto the body, so you can understand what kind of a challenge you will have. I believe there's a spring inside the slave that holds it out.
I think what I had to do was to line it up with the seat on the fork first (look at a diagram so you can see where it needs to make contact), then use an awl in one of the mounting holes to push the slave forward to get the other hole lined up enough to start one of the mounting screws. If it goes on without much of a struggle, then you've missed the seat on the fork... start again.
Can't remember if I attached the hose first or not.... you'll decide what's best once you're in there.
I do believe I put a small dab of grease on the piston to reduce friction between it and the seat on the fork. Have fun!

[KTL]

Ralph,

That hose you pictured doesn't look like the typical clutch flex hose for the '87-'89 G50 trans. Look up 91142317703 in the Pelican part search and you get this

https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&description=91142317703

[jlex]

hmmmm..... maybe replaced the metal line with all flex hose

[Ralph3.]

Originally Posted by KTL

Ralph,

That hose you pictured doesn't look like the typical clutch flex hose for the '87-'89 G50 trans. Look up 91142317703 in the Pelican part search and you get this

https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&description=91142317703

Slightly different, 1990 C2, PN 964-423-477-01. I just assumed they were the same.

[burgermeister]

David, I made parts for a set of 10 of these things. If you (or anyone else) is interested in one of the extras, send me an email. And I can always make more.


As for replacing the slave cylinder, I did a partial engine drop after significant frustration trying to get it attached. With the engine lowered 3-4" you can get to the slave from above, and it's a piece of cake (relatively).

All this talk of clutch lines does bring up another possibility I did not think of when I replaced mine. With the line attached and snugged up, the hard portion of the line could - maybe - act as a more benignly located handle to keep the slave compressed in position while one (ideally an alien with long, skinny arms featuring 2 additional joints over what our terrestrial vertebrate pattern provides, and with very small hands …) weasels the nuts on the studs ...


When I first got my car & I bled the slave cylinder, the stuff that came out looked like Coke syrup. Of course the slave went bad a couple years later, and the master a year after that. What really irritated me is that the PO had a shop replace the clutch 2 years prior - and clearly the shop did not bother to flush it, despite the excellent access that the absence of the powertrain enables.

[pmax]

Awesome tool !

Email sent.

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by burgermeister

David, I made parts for a set of 10 of these things. If you (or anyone else) is interested in one of the extras, send me an email. And I can always make more.

Email sent