911 long hood restomod mid engine or awd?

[jarrodblake]

I'm in the middle of my restomod build and i'm trying to decided it if I rather go mid engine than AWD. The car is a 1970 911E rust bucket. I my original plan was to build a awd long hood. That would be reliable handle good and something I could drive year around rain or snow and take it to the track on the weekend. My plan consisted of using 996 c4 drivetrain and floor pan. However I got a great deal on a totaled 01 boxster with a clear title, it runs but is not currently drivable. My plan with the boxster was to use the front front suspension buy 996 c4 hubs use all the mounts and floor pan use the engine and sell the trans and buy a 996 c4 trans and front diff, then sale the rear suspension and buy 996 suspension and fabricate the rest.

That said I have been considering converting it to mid engine reusing most of the boxster. Any thoughts on this?

The 911 getting ready to go on the rotisserie.



The boxster

[RSBob]

Mid engine is the way to go, just like a 914-6. AWD will sacrifice what makes a 911 corner like a 911 - the mid engine will just make it corner far better.

[jjwood]

Yup, I'm with Bob. Mid engine + water cooled GT3 would be a killer "long hood".

[douglas bray]

"Not currently drivable"???? Apparently you don't know my oldest kid.

[jpnovak]

mid engine would be awesome. Here is some inspiration.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/791509-intriguing-930-race-car-build.html

[wayner]

I just googled "mid engine 911"

I had no idea there were so many projects on the go.

Porsche even did one marrying a Boxster and a 911

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by RSBob

Mid engine is the way to go, just like a 914-6. AWD will sacrifice what makes a 911 corner like a 911 - the mid engine will just make it corner far better.

jjwood: Yup, I'm with Bob. Mid engine + water cooled GT3 would be a killer "long hood".

+1 Yup. An '01 Boxster @ 2800 lbs. moves along nicely, but at maybe 300 lb. lighter overall, a mid-engine 911 will move even better.

Sherwood

[jarrodblake]

Another question Do i keep the boxster engine? A big part of this build is reliability and driving it year around. My original plan was to use a subaru H6 with the 996 g96 awd trans. But it changed when I bough the boxster, I like the idea of using the boxster engine. But I feel it is a time bomb. I have looked in to replacing the IMS bearing and converting it to a DIRECT OIL FEED setup but I don't know if its worth it in the end will it still kill its self? This decision will probably be the deciding factor if I go mid engine or awd. If I keep the boxster engine I will go mid engine if I sell it I will go AWD.

[Trackrash]

I agree, mid engine, 2wd is the way to go. Porsche did it a few times (GT-1) but couldn't get any real interest in it.

I see some issues using the Boxter setup. Primarily dealing with the electronics, engine management, and gauges. I wouldn't worry about the IMS bearing, if you did one of the updates.

[jpnovak]

My thoughts...

Boxster engine and transmission. Stand alone EMS or have fun figuring out all the factory wiring. So much system integration that you might be better just starting from scratch. Won't be cheap either way.

Modify the tub with a tube structure to support the entire Boxster drivetrain, rear suspension and sub assemblies. Consider the same up front.

I did a similar project putting a Subaru TT drivetrain in a 914. It was so much fun. I am sorry I sold it now.

[911pcars]

If budget and bang-for-buck is a consideration, I vote for a twin turbo'ed flat six Subaru engine or a 4-cyl. STI. Not new territory in mid-engine conversions.

Engines are plentiful, relatively light, low cost and seem to be fairly strong. After experimenting with boost pressures, you will appreciated the low cost.

Subaru mid engine swap?
subaru mid engine conversion kit - Subaru Impreza GC8 & RS Forum & Community: RS25.com

[scootermcrad]

Since you scored the Boxter and have a usable drivetrain, my gut would be to go with what you got and do the previously mentioned electrical mods to regain control of everything. Could even entertain the idea of going with an aftermarket EFI setup and run a MegaSquirt, or something to that effect.

I'm always going to recommend to keep it all P-car, but that's for my own selfish, Porsche enthusiast reasons.

With the tub you're starting with, this is the ideal opportunity to also reiterate my original suggestion of doing a tubular chassis to replace the compromised structure you're working with on this car.

I dig the ideas being thrown around here. Curious to see what direction you end up going.

[targa44]

Can you wed the Boxster multi-link rear suspension and still keep it air cooled? Since you're being ambitious (I'm intrigued by your ideas), what would it take to flip the eng/trans after the multi-link was in? - should give you lots of room? Doesn't look like you can use the right front Boxster suspension? - but, 996 and 986 were the same I think.


thanks,

[Flieger]

The Boxster is not a multilink. It uses the same strut suspension front and rear, flipped around one of the cost-cutting, parts-sharing things that brought Porsche from the brink of bankruptcy into the modern profitable, Toyota style company it is today.

996, 997, and 991 use multilink rears, strut fronts.

[jarrodblake]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

I agree, mid engine, 2wd is the way to go. Porsche did it a few times (GT-1) but couldn't get any real interest in it.

I see some issues using the Boxter setup. Primarily dealing with the electronics, engine management, and gauges. I wouldn't worry about the IMS bearing, if you did one of the updates.

I plan on using the stock harness and computer from the car so it should not be a problem.

Originally Posted by jpnovak

My thoughts...

Boxster engine and transmission. Stand alone EMS or have fun figuring out all the factory wiring. So much system integration that you might be better just starting from scratch. Won't be cheap either way.

Modify the tub with a tube structure to support the entire Boxster drivetrain, rear suspension and sub assemblies. Consider the same up front.

I did a similar project putting a Subaru TT drivetrain in a 914. It was so much fun. I am sorry I sold it now.

I would love to go TT but like you said I would have to use a Stand alone EMS.

Originally Posted by 911pcars

If budget and bang-for-buck is a consideration, I vote for a twin turbo'ed flat six Subaru engine or a 4-cyl. STI. Not new territory in mid-engine conversions.

Engines are plentiful, relatively light, low cost and seem to be fairly strong. After experimenting with boost pressures, you will appreciated the low cost.

Subaru mid engine swap?
subaru mid engine conversion kit - Subaru Impreza GC8 & RS Forum & Community: RS25.com

It is one of my consideration of using a subaru engine however I will only do so if I go AWD.

Originally Posted by scootermcrad

Since you scored the Boxter and have a usable drivetrain, my gut would be to go with what you got and do the previously mentioned electrical mods to regain control of everything. Could even entertain the idea of going with an aftermarket EFI setup and run a MegaSquirt, or something to that effect.

I'm always going to recommend to keep it all P-car, but that's for my own selfish, Porsche enthusiast reasons.

With the tub you're starting with, this is the ideal opportunity to also reiterate my original suggestion of doing a tubular chassis to replace the compromised structure you're working with on this car.

I dig the ideas being thrown around here. Curious to see what direction you end up going.

It would be the easiest if I just went mid engine reusing all the electrical and most of the chassis. it would keep it a porsche, but i'm still worried about the engine.

Originally Posted by targa44

Can you wed the Boxster multi-link rear suspension and still keep it air cooled? Since you're being ambitious (I'm intrigued by your ideas), what would it take to flip the eng/trans after the multi-link was in? - should give you lots of room? Doesn't look like you can use the right front Boxster suspension? - but, 996 and 986 were the same I think.


thanks,

I have all ready ordered new front suspension components. I do not have the 911 engine, But that would be a cool idea. I would have to use a different trans, from what I have read its not as simple to swap the ring gear and revers the trans.

Originally Posted by Flieger

The Boxster is not a multilink. It uses the same strut suspension front and rear, flipped around one of the cost-cutting, parts-sharing things that brought Porsche from the brink of bankruptcy into the modern profitable, Toyota style company it is today.

996, 997, and 991 use multilink rears, strut fronts.

+1 that said I wish it was But I don't think there is room for it.





With that if I stay mid engine. It looks like I will have to cut out 5 inches of the chassis. As the wheel base of the boxster is longer than the 911.

This is what I plan on doing to the boxster except I will be removing 5 inches. This is also why I'm am still considering going AWD as no matter what I will have to cut the chassis in two.





Here is a link of what I plan on doing. except they used a bug.

VW Beetle / Porsche Boxster | Build Threads

[targa44]

What a great idea.

Another stupid question - isn't the Boxster about 4-6 wider all around than the 911? Are you just planning on using the floor pan widths after shortening the length to be able to nest the 911 over the Boxster? Is that where you're headed?

Remember the Karman a fellow widened a while back? Thought about a wider 911? I watch with great interest.

good luck,

[jarrodblake]

Originally Posted by targa44

What a great idea.

Another stupid question - isn't the Boxster about 4-6 wider all around than the 911? Are you just planning on using the floor pan widths after shortening the length to be able to nest the 911 over the Boxster? Is that where you're headed?

Remember the Karman a fellow widened a while back? Thought about a wider 911? I watch with great interest.

good luck,

Almost the boxster body is wider but the pinch welds where the floors attach to the rockers are the same well maybe a few mm off. With that said the hub to hub width is wider then the 911 by a few inches. I plan on running 11 inch flares in the rear However I trying to find something a little wider than 9 inch flares to run up front. but it looks like they only make 9 inch fiberglass long hood fenders.

Are you talking about the ghia body on a boxster S?

[targa44]

yes.... on a boxster S.

kj

[scootermcrad]

Originally Posted by jarrodblake

I trying to find something a little wider than 9 inch flares to run up front. but it looks like they only make 9 inch fiberglass long hood fenders.

Shouldn't have an issue finding a good metal guy to make those flares for you if you go with steel fenders. Starting with REAR SC or Turbo flares and turning them around (and then switching sides, obviously) with a little shrinking and stretching and a little pushing and pulling should give you the desired results. Seen it done with SC flares moved to the front and they turn out great and look factory.

Shoot me a PM if you need help finding a good metal shaper in your area. I might be able to point you in the right direction.

Love where this is going. I love early 911's very much in just about any form, from stock to race ready, and heavily modified when done tastefully. I love the direction you're going and think as long as the proportions don't get out of control, this will look fantastic. Challenging build, but I dig the concept and vision.

[Jaskas]

The project sounds interesting. Somehow the same idea came to my mind as well.