It might be time for a non-v8 engine swap

[944noob]

I have a hate love relationship with my 944 and right now it has a couple big issues that need to be addressed - gets hots after about 30 min of driving, smokes at high rpm, and the entire electrical system is riddled with gremlins.

The motor could pretty easily be freshened up and I could go through the electrical system circuit by circuit addressing problems, but I would still have an underpowered car that doesn't speak to me. I love the chassis and styling, but the engine just doesn't have any soul.

I don't have any interest in a v8 swap, but I do want 250-300 hp from an inline or narrow v configuration. The Audi 7a, 3b, or AAN make a ton of sense, but are getting really tough to find. I've also tossed around boosting a vr6, but I'm thinking more and more about a honda or nissan engine. They are cheap and plentiful out of Japan and the road to power is easy and costs nothing. I realize there are major things to sort through - bellhousing, clutch, electrical, mounts, etc. I've done several major swaps and fab work doesn't scare me. Am I alone in this, or are there others that would be interested in something alone these lines?

[MDH]

Nissan V-6
The one in my Frontier Nismo is 4 liter, 265 hp.....
120,000 miles and still solid
Could be a bit tight though....

[v2rocket_aka944]

I get more feelings of bastardization with a Japanese engine in the 944 than an American motor... Dunno why.
Japanese engines are well made but tend to be gutless in my experience which is no improvement over the 944 engine.
A Buick 3.8 may be the best swap option there is IMO... the Audi is novelty but it's still ancient.

[944noob]

I've thought long and hard about a Nissan VQ or a GM L67 3.8. The problem they both have is that they are too wide to retain the stock brake setup and that adds to the complexity of the whole swap. Keeping it straight or really narrow makes things a lot simpler. I was actually looking at Ecotec and Zetec variants a little bit ago to see which takes boost the best.

[sausagehacker]

VQ35 swap would be sick. Friend of mine has a G35 that just wrecked, 40k miles... I'm trying to talk him into getting a 944. If he could buy back his car from the insurance company and swap the motor, it would be perfect.

[grendiers]

What about a Dodge SRT-4 engine? The intake manifold is a bit goofy, but, might there be a way to address this?

[v2rocket_aka944]

It would be a waste of time IMO to swap in an engine with smaller displacement than the 944 engine. What the car needs desperately is torque, which is almost entirely gained by displacement when not in boost if you're looking at an engine with breathing assistance.

One guy on rennlist is sticking the current VW i-5 into his 951 which is pretty cool IMO. But again I wouldn't go anysmaller.

I would like to see someone plink a GM atlas 4 cylinder 2.9l with VVt into a 44... big torque and they are a very solid engine

[Jfrahm]

I think with all the 944NAs out there, it'd be great to have a swap option that produced more power than the stock 2.5NA and cost less than a rebuild of the stock motor. Ideally you'd want to retain the stock brake and steering setup and be able to use the OEM exhaust manifolds or cheap headers. If you have to go with a lot of custom parts you might as well do the GM V8 for which the parts and knowledge are already developed.

Something plentiful and cheap like the GM 3.8L v6 would even have upgrade potential. I can't think of much that would be cheap and common and from an RWD platform. The Toyota 3.4L V6 is a great motor but they probably cost a lot. Maybe a Ford Cologne V6? The 4.0L is probably easy to find in an Explorer or Ranger with a bad transmission for a few hundred bucks.

[944noob]

Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944

It would be a waste of time IMO to swap in an engine with smaller displacement than the 944 engine. What the car needs desperately is torque, which is almost entirely gained by displacement when not in boost if you're looking at an engine with breathing assistance.

The displacement myth needs to be fully debunked. With the right mix of boost, timing, compression, and octane torque AND horsepower are easy. The problem is that most people never experience a properly setup MODERN turbo, supercharged, or twin charged setup.

Originally Posted by Jfrahm

I think with all the 944NAs out there, it'd be great to have a swap option that produced more power than the stock 2.5NA and cost less than a rebuild of the stock motor. Ideally you'd want to retain the stock brake and steering setup and be able to use the OEM exhaust manifolds or cheap headers.

Thats what I'm thinking. I don't really have anything against the stock engine, but its going to cost me way over a grand to bring it back to as new condition and it will still be really underpowered by today's standards. I've worked through several oddball projects and think there may be a market for an off the shelf used engine that can be had for $500 used, a $150 clutch, and a $250 installation kit. At the surface it doesn't look that great, but if I can find the right engine it could a lot of missing character and boost power

[v2rocket_aka944]

I've driven plenty of cars, of all engine types, displacements and fuels... The big ones are always nicer to drive. Boost helps allot but only when you're in the throttle enough to get boost. I'm talking about the time where you're in traffic or coming off stoplights and the 944 series of all varieties excepting the 89na and S2 are gutless.

The only thing that differentiates the 2.7 from the 2.5 is bore and intake ports, and a little bit of compression.... Yet it makes about 25% more torque at any engine speed.

A smaller engine is completely pointless in a car that sees normal street driving.

If it's your Sunday morning toy or just for fun then have at it with your 1.8t or neon engines...

[Sterling Doc]

The expensive parts in a motor aren't the donor motor. It' the oil pan, exhaust, clutch/bellhousing, and brakes.

An inline motor may address many of those, but a custom oil pan may still be needed. The LS swaps at least have a proven path around those issues. The VW I-5 might be interesting if the oil pan issue can be solved. It has some interesting upgrade paths.

For cost, it may be hard to beat a truck 4.8LS with the cheap TPC manifold, used C5 bellhousing, and picking up a few used or cast off part on the 944 Hybrids forum.

[cockerpunk]

why wouldnt you put in an LS series?

[Arthropraxis]

The Audi inline 5 turbo or the Nissan SR20 DET were mentioned as good options in a similar recent thread.

[Litesonic]

I have seen a few Subie engines in other porsches (914s)... and having had a 2.0L that put out 300 hp in the STi trim... another 4 cyl option is tempting in the 944 bay.

I imagine it's the hardened transmission that also needs to be considered though.

Happy hunting.

[944noob]

Originally Posted by v2rocket_aka944

A smaller engine is completely pointless in a car that sees normal street driving.

If it's your Sunday morning toy or just for fun then have at it with your 1.8t or neon engines...

True enough, but I guess I don't see the 944 as a "normal" street car. Mine only gets driven a couple times a month when my wife is picking up and dropping off the kids. And even if it were a daily for me my commute sees no traffic and a sizable portion of the drive is beautiful winding roads through the hills of Southeast Indiana.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

why wouldnt you put in an LS series?

I guess the LS just doesn't speak to me. Its an easy road to awesome power, great reliability, and its a proven solution to many of the 944's problems. I don't have a good reason why, but I just don't want one.

Originally Posted by Arthropraxis

The Audi inline 5 turbo or the Nissan SR20 DET were mentioned as good options in a similar recent thread.

I would love the Audi engine and the great thing about it is that there is a porsche part number for the bellhousing. The problem with the Audi engines is that they are getting really old and are starting to get hard to find. The SR20 is an interesting piece, but I'm finding that they really aren't the engine everyone has made them out to be. My cousin has a beautiful S14 with a built SR20 and while he makes great power it hasn't been as easy as the internet makes it out to be.

[arominus]

Reality is, the cheap swap outside of the S2/968 engine IS the v8. You do the 4.8 as mentioned and you can probably get it done for around what it would cost to do a 968 motor swap. Its the cheap swap because its the one the community coalesced around and developed, you don't have to waste money figuring out how to make it happen because its been documented and detailed. You can't say that about any of the other engine swaps.

I mean what else do you have? there is the audi option, which requires a hard to find bellhousing and has no readily available standalone engine harness like the LS does so its harder to integrate into the cars electrical system. The VR6 has the same problem. The oil pan is not right for the 944 also IIRC.

There is one shop that worked up an RB swap kit last year that i have yet to see anyone do, but if they did they end up with a JDM motor never used in the US so parts are less fun to get.

The VQ would be cool, but its new territory and as such needs development to work, not cheap.

Subie motors are likely too wide and suffer from price inflation, every one thinks their 200k mile beat to **** WRX is worth 8k. They get hurt a lot and so its hard to find a good core that doesn't need to be gone through. Not a great option also because you end up with the same amount of power you would have gotten from a 968 swap (225 vs 236).

Any SR20's in the US have suffered the wrath of the drift kids and are usually stuck inside an overpriced beat down 240. Not a great option.

I doubt that a complete SRT-4 motor is easy or cheap to get as most SRT-4's still sell for 9k+. Also beat down.

XSchop has made the parts to do a 1uz-fe swap from the lexus SC/LS400 cars, this is a tempting swap.

[porschetub]

Japanese HP is from small ponies not real horses,the v6 3.8 Buick in various forms is a cheap and easy conversion and goes for ever ,my 3.8 ran for ever and very good on fuel for the heavy car it was in, the 944 is lighter.

[fiat22turbo]

1.8T:

924Board.org :: View topic - 1.8T 924



12A/13B:

924Board.org :: View topic - Project RX924 begins!

Audi I6:

924Board.org :: View topic - Straight six engine in a 924

The 2.4L SRT4 engine is related to the older 2.5L engines from Chrysler and is pretty stout. RWD bellhousings are available which would make adaptation slightly easier. The 2.4L shares parts with the 2.0's and 2.4's used in other Chrysler products like the Neon, Stratus and the PT Cruiser as well as the Mitsubishi's that use the 420a (same motor and cylinder head, just reversed flow with the same bolt pattern for the intake and exhaust). So there are different intake options available as well as different exhaust options to choose the config you'd like.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by 944noob

I guess the LS just doesn't speak to me. Its an easy road to awesome power, great reliability, and its a proven solution to many of the 944's problems. I don't have a good reason why, but I just don't want one.

speak to you?

what a load.

so instead your gonna mess around for thousands of dollars, and possibly years of time, to fit in an engine, that is less powerful, less reliable, and worse gas millage. because 420+ hp doesn't speak to you like the engine out of a bro-cruiser "i want people to think i know about cars, but i actually don't know anything about cars" G35/37.

[fiat22turbo]

Well, don't you live up to your screen name. Stop trolling, you've already trolled flash968, I think you've done enough for a while. The dude doesn't want an LSx in his car, its his car, let him make that decision, eh? Don't like it? Build your own and enjoy it, dude wasn't looking for opinions, just engine swap ideas that aren't LSx-based.