Whats the value of my 1977 911.....very modded and updated

[Chuchuf]

Folks, I'm going to be selling my '77 after 38 years of ownership in the next month or so and am trying to figure out what the value is.
I have just spent the last 4 months going through the car and making sure that everything works and it is cleaned up. It hasn't been on the road for the past 10 years but has been kept up with.
Here is some info:
1977 Porsche 911S

We are the second owner or this car which we purchased in 1979 and drove it pretty much stock till around 1987. Original Color Gran Prix White, Cork interior, power window, power sunroof. We know the history of this car and it has never been in an accident as long as we have had it. We don’t believe that the original owner we bought it from had any either. Car is straight and rust free.

1988 3.2 engine was professionally installed by a local Porsche mechanic 1992. Engine was purchased used from a local Porsche salvage shop (PAP) 1992 with about 22k miles on it and put in my car which had ~130K miles. I have put 36K total miles on engine and 15K since the last rebuild in 1995 which was done because I had the engine previously super charged and burned a piston. Engine was twin plugged during this rebuild and then supercharger was later removed after ~5K miles. So Total on engine is ~ 58K miles and ~15K miles since last top end rebuild.

• Gran Prix White – This was a paint over original when we did the steel flairs in 1988. I’ve just had the paint gone over and it looks very nice for 30 year old Glasurite.
• 930 Steel Factory Flares welded on ~ 1988
• AIR 930S Front Valance Fiberglass ~1988
• Front Brake cooler holes in Valance are functional
• Passenger Electric Mirror Added , both work
• Air conditioned car but I have the Compressor and Rear Condenser out but have them, so the system can be made complete. Last time this air was run it was on the old R12 so it would have to be converted to the new Freon
• Electric Windows and electric sunroof, all work
• Black on hood and tail are Avery Supreme Satin Black film
• Just spent over $3500 on parts and 5 months getting the car in first class shape ready to sell.

Suspension

• Weltmeister Cambermeister strut brace
• 22mm Weltmeister through body front sway bar
• 22mm Weltmeister rear sway bar
• 19mm 930 Front Torsion Bars
• 26mm 930 Rear Torsion Bars
• Bilstien Sport Front Shocks
• Bilstien Sport Rear Shocks
• Lowered
• Turbo Tie Rod Ends
• Bump Steer Kit
• Front end rebuilt ~1993 when new engine went in
• New HD bushings installed when the new torsion bars and shocks were done
• OZ racing wheels just Plasti Koted black. They were originally gold but was looking for a more modern look. Plasti Kote can be peeled off if you want he original gold look.
• New Rakin Raptor Tires (made by Michelin). 225/50/16 front, 245/50/16 rear. I choose these because they have very good reviews, are all W rated unlike the RE11’s. I also went to a 50 on the rear sidewall to make street driving smoother with the tight suspension in the car
• Spare tire and toolkit (shows it’s age but tire looks good)
• Cleaned and coated front suspension parts with Por15


Brakes:

• Stainless Steel Brake Lines
• 930 Turbo Front & Rear Calipers (Rears and spacers redrilled by VCI) http://www.vehiclecraft.com/Brakes/930_upgrade.htm
• Vehicle Craft Inc (VCI) Drilled rear and Slotted Front discs
• Brakes are non floating
• Larger 23mm Master Cylinder
• Front Brake Cooler backs hooked up to front valance with new silicon cooling hoses
• Brake Fluid ATE Super Blue (NOS I had)
• Extra set of used but lots left Pagid Orange pads for track DE use

Interior

• Cork color
• Just refinished dash, kneepads, and door armrests with Genuine German Cork Vinyl
• Like new RS America Black cloth 4 way power seats (Up/Dn front and rear) By far the best sport seats I’ve ever had
• Drivers seat rails are made from Carbon Fiber and were lowered ~1.5” as well as allow the seat to be mounted in 3 positions providing more leg room. Front mounting holes are standard position. With the RS America seats you have a LOT of upward travel and you can easily mount a racing seat of you want. I’m 6’4” and have a lot of leg and head room
• Just installed new Appbiz Lightweight Domestic Black Carpet
• Rear seats are out but I have them with mounting hardware
• Fixed drivers and pass door pockets while doing carpet
• Bolt in Roll Bar
• Momo Steering Wheel and adapter to push wheel back a bit
• Upper Steering shim just replaced to remove up down slop
• Black leather covered Momo shifter knob
• Driver is set up for 5 point harness, Pass for 4 point, belts not included
• Upgraded Tach face by North Hollywood (I think) so redline is up and you don’t have to rotate your tach. It reads a bit high on idle but has been checked on top end and is accurate. Read a bit high at idle but has been checked at top end for accuracy
• Sony Amp under Pass Seat
• Removable rear shelf with 2 JL Audio Subwoofers. Can easily be removed for those track days with two screws
• New driver and pass floor wood pieces just put in.
• Replaced Visors with the kind that don’t disintegrate and dyed the same color as headliner, Ivory
• Just re-dyed headliner stock color, Ivory
• Windshield replaced ~30K miles ago
• Dead Pedal or foot rest for left foot while driving (keep foot off clutch)

Motor and Trans

• 1988 3.2L Motor Purchased in 1992 from PAP w/ 22K miles on motor and ~130K miles on car
• Motor top end 3.2L rebuilt ~15K Miles ago and made twin plug. Reason for rebuild was previously installed supercharger burned one of the pistons.
• Compression warm (PSI) 170,170,164,170,170,165
• Leak Down cold <3%, <3%, 3%, 3%, <3%, 4% . No leaking can be heard from intake, oil tank or exhaust No broken head studs, checked during recent valve adjust.
• Trans 915 w/ ZF LSD gone through ~30K miles ago
• Replaced Engine Support Bar during engine swap
• SSI exhaust
• Stock 2 in 1 out muffler that was opened a bit and a larger SS tip welded on. Looks good and sounds good!! But not to loud and annoying
• Twin Plug, heads machining by Ollies
• Porsche twin plug distributor from 3.6 motor just rebuilt and new belt added
• High Voltage silicon ignition wires recommended by Crane, NGK B8ES plugs top and bottom
• New rubber distributor caps just replaced
• Lower plug hold downs
• Turbo Valve Covers
• Dual Crane HI-6 CD boxes and Dual Crane PS-92 Coils to drive twin plugs that works with DME
• New engine compartment heat/sound shield just installed
• Oil, Filter and Fuel Filter just changed. The fuel filter was cut open after running it for period to insure here wasn’t any contamination from the refinishing of the fuel tank.. Nothing found in filter.
• Fuel system was flushed out and fuel tank removed, cleaned and coated inside with Bill Hirsch Sealer inside making sure none got on the stir pot. Tank was coated with Por 15 on the bottom outside and texture put back on and repainted black on bottom, standard grey on top
• Earls Front Oil Cooler
• New battery (just replaced)
• Electrical Kill Switch
• Motor and trans mounts replaced with heavy duty versions
• Shifter connector replaced
• Performance Clutch
• Autothority Chip. SW wasn’t around when I did this but I’m sure his chip could extract some more HP if the engine is described to him
• Short Shift Kit
• New Oil Pressure sender (just replaced)
• K&N Air Filter (just cleaned)
• New Fan Belt (just replaced)
• Valves adjusted
• Just changed Trans fluid with Kendall 80-w-90 GL-5 with LSD additive
• No oil leaks anywhere on engine or trans

Body
• H4 lights and painted rings
• New bulbs all around and all lights operate
• Refinished front and rear running lights and new seals in rear
• New HD hood lifts (just installed) that are supposed to be guaranteed for life.
• Tail is a 3.8 RSR with Carbon Fiber wing from TRG. If you prefer the older 930 tail I’m sure this one could be sold to more than cover the costs
• AIR 930S Front Spoiler with Fog Light opening modded to brake coolers
• The huge rear heavy US rubber bumpers were removed to save weight in the rear. I still have them if you want to put them back on. Holes were filled with JB weld so you can see them from the back side if you want to redrill them and put the heavy bumpers back on
• New windshield rubber when I did the dash and new drivers window felt and outer felt both sides and rubber both sides.
• All fuses just changed to new ones
• Undercoating was put on by PO, I just refreshed it cleaning some of the old off and shooting new in the wheel wells.
• Wrap in satin black on hood and tail. This can be easily removed if you want all white. Reason this was done is to give a more hot rod look. Should be good for 10 years if car is kept inside.

Extras
• Brake pads used (lots of life) front and rear
• Compressor, mount and rear condenser if you want to make the AC work again. If it were me I’d take the rest of the AC components out and lighten the car as the AC on these early cars isn’t very good and I did everything to try and make it very cold. It has the additional front condenser and blower installed.
• Rear Seats and seat backs re-carpeted but out of car. I have all the bolts if you want to reinstall.
• Most receipts since we owned it
• Copies of 3.2 Engine and trans factory service manuals
• Fog Lights, rear turbo fog lite
• Rear heavy US bumpers
• Many other extras, essentially everything I saved since ownership.

What does the car need?

• If you want A/C you will need to re-install the compressor and rear condenser and convert to R134A.
• At some point you will need to replace the rear window seal It’s more of a cosmetic thing.
• The engine deck shocks don’t hold the rear deck lid up. I gave up on replacing these years ago as they don’t last very long.
• The dash brake/fasten seat belt light hasn’t worked in years and I couldn’t figure out how to fix it. I suspect bulbs need to be replaced



So what do you think?
Thanks,

Terry

[SalParadise]

Terry your description is awesome.

Please add photographs. It's easy to do on Pelican, it has a Click Here To Upload Photos button.

I really would like to see it because I am really into midyears.

[Chuchuf]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Terry your description is awesome.

Please add photographs. It's easy to do on Pelican, it has a Click Here To Upload Photos button.

I really would like to see it because I am really into midyears.

Will do, just give me a day or so to clean up my shop and snap some pics with my phone. Mind you the hood and tail are off and it's up on jacks as I work on the car so pictures won't show it's low mean stance.

BTW, compared to other forums the few times I put pics on here I found slow and difficult.

Terry

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Chuchuf

Will do, just give me a day or so to clean up my shop and snap some pics with my phone. Mind you the hood and tail are off and it's up on jacks as I work on the car so pictures won't show it's low mean stance.

BTW, compared to other forums the few times I put pics on here I found slow and difficult.

Terry

No, it's really east to add photographs, and it's as fast as eBay.

It looks like a serious commitment to a midyear. I don't see many '77s - most were modded with flatnoses/side intakes/turbo tails/cheese-ball interiors (ie white gauges) and three-blade wipers.

Arguably, the '77, like mine (a '75 S) were probably bottom-of-the-barrel 911s five years ago. Now things have really changed and it's a good market to sell. It only took 30 years for people to wake up to the finer things in life...

[Chuchuf]

OK here are some pictures I snapped out in my shop. Sorry for the bad quality and there is dust all over the car outside.

My feeling is that the tires will be up to the new owner as there are lots of good choices out there. I have BFG Comp T/A's on it which I really liked but they are showing some cracking from age.

Terry

[Chuchuf]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

No, it's really east to add photographs, and it's as fast as eBay.

It looks like a serious commitment to a midyear. I don't see many '77s - most were modded with flatnoses/side intakes/turbo tails/cheese-ball interiors (ie white gauges) and three-blade wipers.

Yea, I tried to stay away from the stuff that I didn't like and replicate an M491 option car. Always liked the looks of the turbos. Consider slant nose when we did the flares, but honestly it just wasn't my cup of tea. I though it ruined the lines of the car, but that's just my opinion.

Really like the seats a lot. Had leather sport seats at one time but you slide to much on leather and the RSA seats were much better.

The only thing wrong with the mid year cars was the mag case on the engine. But adjustments could be made to that during a rebuild. Mine was in the car 130K miles without a rebuild and was still going strong (with good maintenance) when I had the 3.2 put in.

Terry

[Chuchuf]

Rear 930 brakes picture

Terry

[75 911s]

Tough one as the audience is narrowed to hot rod Porsche guys. A lot of money in this one that may not see back unless you find the right buyer. I'm biased, but I like all the mods and I like mid-years. No offense, but I think the cork is a minus. And BBS are a minus (though I personally love them) What injection system do you have? Can we see a picture of the engine bay and underneath the engine? Are you looking to trade or cash out?

[SalParadise]

I think it's awesome. It is probably one of the most tasteful modded '77s I've seen.

Getting back money will be tough, but people 'in the know' will appreciate the simpler midyear starting point.

Personally, as said above I'm not a fan of any gold BBSs on anything - except maybe a 1987 red VW GTI.

The market is tough on cars like this.

You'd have to find the right person, and it's much easier thanks to the internet.

I'd get it all back together and cleaned very well and put it on BaT. I wouldn't be surprised at $28-$32K - to the right person.

[75 911s]

I might go higher than that. I was thinking high 30s maybe more. That frunk is spotless. If the rest of the car looks that clean, that's a super solid car. Knowing the costs of a widebody conversion, a twin spark 3.2, 930 brakes - those are all big dollar mods. Finish putting it back together, and murder out the BBS I think they look really killer all black- and get a pro photographer to snap some 'stanceworks' style photos and you may appeal to younger Porsche enthusiasts with money looking for an RWB type look and couldn't care less about originality.

[Chuchuf]

I don't ever expect to get back what I have in this car over the years I've owned it. Went through my receipts the other days and no way. Heck the brakes alone are what $5K?
What I am trying to decide is if it's worth it to continue on or part it out?
It is a very reliable car with great cold and hot starts. Corners and stops like mad.
Motor is essentially stock except for the twin plug setup. Injectors are stock but I did pull the fuel rails and injectors to clean them a few months ago and replaced the o rings and screens in the injectors. They didn't need it as they were clean as were the rails and fuel lines.
There are absolutely no oil leaks or broken studs. I had the DME professionally gone through when we installed the engine (essentially to insure no cold solder joints) and I just opened it to insure there isn't any corrosion which there wasn't. I also worked with Crane on installing the twin plug system and replaced the belt in the 3.6 distributor a month ago although it didn't need it.
Man with the EFI systems out here now, I would be really into doing coil overs plugs and programmable FI. Megasquirt and others look very interesting.

Terry

[Chuchuf]

Originally Posted by 75 911s

I might go higher than that. I was thinking high 30s maybe more. That frunk is spotless. If the rest of the car looks that clean, that's a super solid car. Knowing the costs of a widebody conversion, a twin spark 3.2, 930 brakes - those are all big dollar mods. Finish putting it back together, and murder out the BBS I think they look really killer all black- and get a pro photographer to snap some 'stanceworks' style photos and you may appeal to younger Porsche enthusiasts with money looking for an RWB type look and couldn't care less about originality.

I like your thinking 75 911s. Personally I like the way the car is built a lot, time has caught up with me and bad knee's so it isn't the fun it was 20 years ago. It's a beast cornering and braking and runs strong for a 3.2.
The wheels BTW are OZ Racing MSW 3 piece. Black?
When I finish the car I will have it professionally photographed.

Terry

[75 911s]

It looks unbelievably clean. Like mine. Babied. Sounds like you need to get out and drive. Since the refresh have you driven it much?

-Edit, oh I see your knee comment.

Parting it out might be tough emotionally. You would have no problem getting good money for the parts.

[Chuchuf]

Yea the knees are the biggest problem for me driving it. Since the 3.2 I drove it 30K+ miles and did some DE with it so I had my fun. My wife drove it the first 50K or so miles and then I took it over so I have quite a few miles on it.
Time to let someone else enjoy it.
Terry

[SalParadise]

To maximize your money you'd have to do the following:

1) Detail it. I mean really detail it.
2) Put other rims on it (sorry, but the gold BBSs are dated and that's the now 2017 game). Then you'd have to add tires. I know this is money but it would be worth it.
3) Get it running and drive it. And I mean drive it. Get real numbers on leakdowns and compression and post photographs of the findings.
4) Get photos of all corners.
5) Sort everything that needs to be sorted.
6) No way that current rear tail that you speak of in the year 2017 is going to be that marketable.

I would market it as a hotrod. To get all the money as has been said it's going to take a few weeks (or months) of work. The difference in my estimate and $39K is only $7K. $7K gets eaten up very quickly when you consider tires, rims, and a real tail that someone in 2017 actually wants on their car and wants to look at. If you want all the money then you have to add the stuff that people actually want - or they will discount accordingly.

Problem is, when people come up with estimates they are always thinking of 'What the car could be' in their minds - not in its present state.

I made an educated estimate on what I think it's worth as I've followed midyear auctions - not what it could be worth, off the jackstands and with some cosmetic (for the year 2017 preference) additions that will add value.

[thamlin000]

This is really a stand out car. With the 3.2, it must be a killer ride.

Even though it is a 'work in progress' and incomplete right now, it is very clear that this car has been modified correctly over the years by a knowledgeable long-term owner who really has cared for it well. Judging by his detailed write up and his dedication to bring this car up to top mechanical condition after it's long-term storage, this car will sell easily.

The high quality aftermarket parts and attention to detail along with the overall cleanliness of this car will bring a premium. The suspension on my 77 911 is set up similar to this one and I can tell you that it is awesome. Even this dash is perfect without any cracks and a ton of detail in the interior. I know the market prefers stock 911s but a well modified car in good condition also has value. I see the cork interior as a plus over the typical black interior but would prefer the seats to be cork also; even though I understand the logic of going with black only RSA cloth sport seats.

I look forward to seeing this car when it is put back together. Hopefully the BBSs fill out the wheel wells correctly.

When it's back on the ground, I'd ask $40k+ if I were selling.

[Chuchuf]

Sal,
Thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.
I can certainly add tires to the car, no problem, but with so many good choices out here and this being a personal thing, I thought I'd leave that up to the buyer. But maybe not.
On the rim's what if I finish them black as suggested earlier?
I have been sorting out everything, and I mean everything for the past 3 months. It all works as it should except for the A/C (which I can put back in) and the seat belt/brakes light. I have replaced all defective parts and cleaned and finished as needed.
The car had dust and pollen on it this morning when I took the pix so reflection isn't as good as it is.
Do you hink that the tail should be changed? to a whale tail or even a duck tail (I can't believe how popular they have become, whats old is new I guess.....)

Terry

[billh1963]

Put the car on Bring A Trailer (BAT) for maximum return....trust me. You'll be happy you did !

[Chuchuf]

Originally Posted by thamlin000

I see the cork interior as a plus over the typical black interior but would prefer the seats to be cork also; even though I understand the logic of going with black only RSA cloth sport seats.

Hopefully the BBSs fill out the wheel wells correctly.

When I bought the RSA seats I really debated the color for quite a while. At he time I had leather cork sport seats and cork carpet. My feeling was that I knew eventually I would change the carpet to black and there was enough black accent in the interior to balance the black seats. But I do agree that cork cloth RSA seats would be the cats meow.

Yes the OZ Racing wheels fill out the wheel wells perfectly as the spacers are the correct ones front and rear.

Terry

[Chuchuf]

Originally Posted by billh1963

Put the car on Bring A Trailer (BAT) for maximum return....trust me. You'll be happy you did !

Interesting. I was considering eBay as a marketing tool, but have read a lot of good things recently about BaT. I'll have to do a little more digging.

Terry