Question for anyone who's driven a 4 speed 930

[spuggy]

'Coz I never have


How is the factory 4-speed 1st for moving off the line/around in traffic?

Does it need a little finesse/slipping - or basically fine?

Does it seem too tall once clutch is home and rolling at low speeds - eg transmission snatch, have to feather the clutch etc?

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Spoogie, first is just about perfect for moving from a stop, normal around town driving, etc (not too tall, not too short, and doesn't require any special technique to use it).

For me, second could be a little taller for city driving, as it is too short to stay in that gear unless you like high RPM puttering around, and shifting into third lugs too much for that type driving.

[JMS935]

The 4 speed is a great tranny, I like it more than the 5 speed. The ‘89 is not premium in my book, even though it is to the mkt. The clutch isn’t nearly as hard to work, and the H pattern is easier to use as well, besides the obvious that there’s less shifting involved. That’s just my two cents.

On a separate note, I’m shocked that Rawk addressed a post with Spoogie and nothing dirty followed it!

[s5uewf]

4 speed works great. 1st gear is fine for take off. Only time I ever felt it was lacking was when I was playing with timing curve and had too little advance in the lower RPM range. Otherwise, car basically drives off as soon as pedal is released.

I do often think I still want to adjust ratios for 2,3,4 to bring them closer together. I don't need to go 185mph with stock ratios but would like even more slingshot to outerspace acceleration with shorter ratios...!!

[Noah930]

Minivans beat me across the intersection when the light turns green. Though I think that's more a result of the stock turbo lag, as opposed to the tallness of the gearing or the clutch. Besides, in a proper race car, isn't 1st supposed to be geared towards the slowest corner on the track, as opposed to getting away from a stop?

[gumba]

I disliked the stock 4 speed. You could go from 10-85mph in 2nd gear. I remember doing 125 down the straight at Laguna in 3rd, forget using 4th. This was in my mostly stock '78 930.
When Wevo did the trans in the DP we decided to go to a Andial 8:39 instead of custom 2/3/4. I find it a much better set up than stock, and cheaper than custom gearing.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

So yer saying I just dropped the spoog(ie) and walked away?!?! Yer so nasty, JMS!!!

I guess it’s nothing out of the norm for you, talking trannys and spoogies at the same time. Just don’t spoogy in your tranny! (S)he might get pissed off.

[spuggy]

Thanks for the input guys!

Yeh, kicking around regearing the G50/01, as an N/A G50 on a 930 is basically a 3 speed box with a 1st/5th that're both too short to be ideal, and I've been tempted by a taller 1st gearset..

My goal is to actually be able to just use 1-2-3-4 like a regular car (oh! what a concept!), with 5th as an long-legged gear. (Had a 38:29 5th in my 915, and it was great to cruise 2600 RPM @ 70 or 2800 @ 80. Even with CIS, it'd still out-accelerate most things by just flooring it in 5th,...)

But 1st is too short on either a 915 or a N/A g50 to be useful (41-42 MSIG @ 7K - who the heck would do that?) - and the G50/50 1st not very different, at 47 MSIG...

A tall (2.6) 1st - identical to a 930 4-speed 1st ratio, allowing for the C&P, hence the question - gives 57 MSIG, on the gear calculator I was doing comparisons against (w/ 7K redline, 24.5" tires).

Plugging those ratios and my old CIS dyno #'s into a shift point calculator gives:



1-2 possibly a smidge close; but I think that would work.

I remember turbo lag; wasn't a big fan. Must be agonizing in a stock car that makes less off-boost than an SC due to soft cams, conservative ignition timing and compression...

[clutch-monkey]

Boost per gear? Can make 1st more tame then have the psi really wind in for second and third etc

[smurfbus]

MBC works like that too but you get taper after max.torque if you dont use a pressureregulator with it.

[JMS935]

1st being too short is one of my biggest complaints in the G50/50. I’ve got that tranny in one of my 930s, and when combined with higher horsepower and a quicker spool turbo, that gear is nearly worthless. As soon as the turbo is kicking in you are topping out the gear if you’re not spot on with your gear shift right away. It’s not ideal by any means.

[RarlyL8]

As you can gather from the comments, perception of the 4sdp depends on engine modifications.
The stock engine is horribly mis-matched with the stock 4spd. It grows into the too-few long gears at about 325whp. Below that HP/torque level the 915 or Carrera G50 has gearing that better matches the power. Bottom line is don't go changing anything on your tranny until you have settled on power mods.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by JMS935

1st being too short is one of my biggest complaints in the G50/50. I’ve got that tranny in one of my 930s, and when combined with higher horsepower and a quicker spool turbo, that gear is nearly worthless. As soon as the turbo is kicking in you are topping out the gear if you’re not spot on with your gear shift right away. It’s not ideal by any means.

Exactly; same thing but even more extreme with an N/A 1st of course - but a G50/50 1st didn't look to me like it went far enough to address the issue/make the gear actually useful either, so thanks for confirming.

There seems to be a pattern here - WTF was the factory thinking with the 996TT 1st ratio? 3.82? I cannot figure that out - it just does not make any sense to me in any scenario I can imagine.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by spuggy

Exactly; same thing but even more extreme with an N/A 1st of course - but a G50/50 1st didn't look to me like it went far enough to address the issue/make the gear actually useful either, so thanks for confirming.

There seems to be a pattern here - WTF was the factory thinking with the 996TT 1st ratio? 3.82? I cannot figure that out - it just does not make any sense to me in any scenario I can imagine.

My G50/50 is in a modified DP 935 which magnifies the problem for me. I'd bet that with a stock motor it wouldn't feel nearly as short as it does in my car. With mine I have to shift into 2nd almost instantly, I don't really like it like that. If you're not aware of this you'll definitely top out the gear when driving it. The rest of my 930s are all 4 speeds, and I much prefer them. The longer gears allow one to enjoy being on boost longer before needing to shift gears, to me that is more enjoyable. I think many people prefer more gear shifting, but not me, the 4 speed is the sweet spot.

[gumba]

I’m with Jim on the 4 speed. If I could have afforded a short 930 4 speed for the bus, I would have gone that way.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by JMS935

My G50/50 is in a modified DP 935 which magnifies the problem for me. I'd bet that with a stock motor it wouldn't feel nearly as short as it does in my car. With mine I have to shift into 2nd almost instantly,

Exactly. With cams and a quick-spooling turbo, you get off the line with the smallest amount of throttle and short-shift ridiculously soon, taking an RPM drop in order to get into 2nd sooner so you can get on with it.

More than once, I have pulled away in 2nd from standing still. Which isn't ideal either, but eliminates that shift.

Seems to me that a taller 1st would be much more flexible/suited to a tuned 930; could actually use power in it. Hold onto it long enough to minimize rpm drop for the 1-2 shift. Or even hold it long enough to avoid a shift to 2nd at all.

[T77911S]

ironically for me just driving 1st is fine. its funny, if I start off ion 2nd in my 330ci its a struggle which seems to that "Should" be like starting off in 1st in the 930.

with lots of turbo lag I think the 4spd is horrible, especially on the street if you really want to enjoy driving it unless you want to down shift to 1st for turns.

I have only had mine on the track once and for me, needing the right gear was just not there with all the turbo lag.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by T77911S

with lots of turbo lag I think the 4spd is horrible, especially on the street if you really want to enjoy driving it unless you want to down shift to 1st for turns.

A stock 4 speed is definitely laggy, whereas the stock 5 speed helps keep it on boost better. Even mildly modified however, and some of that lag is gone. And when heavily modified, the 1st gear on the 5 speed becomes an annoyance, the gear is just too short.

If you want a stock 930, the 5 speed is the better tranny for staying on boost. If you want to modify for more hp, however, I prefer mating it to a 4 speed. Less rowing equals more going.

[smurfbus]

My stock ratio 4 speed works fine in city driving even in 3rd or 4th. My 964 cams are max.advanced and I have 20deg of spark timing from 1100 and 30 from 1300 rpms so I can run really low revs on 4th if I wanted and it is not lagging. boost starts to build up at 2000 on 3rd so over 2000rpms is sweetspot on twisties but I usually end up driving in 4th and around 1600 rpms because it runs so nice.

[Tippy]

IMO, the G50/50 has the perfect 1st gear (3.15:1 IIRC).

Low enough for quick launches but enough rollout to load the turbo nicely.

My G50/01 is way too low in 1st (3.50:1). Virtually useless.