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3.2 conversion - lots of questions!

Hello Turbo Pelicans,

First, THANK YOU! Big time, for sharing your information with the rest of us. You have inspired me to go after my dream of getting the turbo charging system on my 1985 3.2 Carrera. I am trying to do this as cheap as possible, because I am selling other toys like Rolex watch, Nikon camera lenses etc. to pay for it.

One of the first questions you guys always ask is: What is your goal? I would be thrilled to have 300-325hp, with boost coming on at 3.5-4k rpm.

I bought this turbo on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=017&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=270130308650&rd=1,1

Question: What is AR 50? How is that different from AR 69? What is the trim number? The description on my ebay part does not have a trim specified.

Phil told me about Function 7 flanges to connect oil supply and sump. He gave me his parts list for oil return stuff from BAT. Where do I tap into the oil suppy to the turbo?

Question: Where do I get intake flange/elbow to MAF? How much does it cost?

I need to keep my heat, so I want to keep my heat exchangers. I have a cat by-pass now and what I believe is a 930 muffler. What are my options for connecting the turbo between the cat by-pass and muffler?



Question: Do I have to cut into my engine tin to make a hole for the tubing from the turbo to the intake?

Question: Do I need an intercooler for running low boost? I believe that I will have a .6 bar/8 psi setup. If I do need one, I would probably also have to change my tail from tea tray type to turbo and move my air conditioning condensor. So, it will probably add at least $2,500 to the total cost.

Question: What specific lengths of tubing do I need (elbows etc.)?

Question: Where does the wastegate go?

Question: Where does the BOV go? Is it welded into a section of tubing?

I am going to get the RRFPR and Motronic chip from Todd at Protomotive.

Question: Where do I install the RRFPR? (Pictures are tremendously helpful if you have some)

Lm1? Three packages are offered. Do I need the basic $350 or the whole kit for $600?

I will have to buy fuel pressure and boost gauge. Where do these gauges get their signals? Does the RRFPR have plugs that you connect to for electrical signal or is it mechanical. How does the boost gauge work? Where is it connected? How does the gauge get that signal? I saw a gauge on Ebay that showed vacuum and boost on the same dial: is vacuum just negative boost?

I hope that you will all pardon me for being so entirely clueless. I am completely fascinated with the topic and I have read as much as I can find on the subject. If you want to point out threads that will help, I am totally willing to go where you lead me to learn.
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Black 1985 Carrera ~ Whale Tail - Gone but not forgotten
2013 Boxster - Wifey Car
1969 Karmann Ghia - Next in line for restoration
"Driving in its most beautiful form"
Old 06-18-2007, 03:13 PM
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Exhaust

Here is a picture of my exhaust. The motor was just rebuilt.

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Black 1985 Carrera ~ Whale Tail - Gone but not forgotten
2013 Boxster - Wifey Car
1969 Karmann Ghia - Next in line for restoration
"Driving in its most beautiful form"
Old 06-18-2007, 03:34 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Welcome to the dark side!

The first thing you need is this to replace your cat bi-pass :



I would be tempted to run low boost and skip the intercooler for now. That would help you take the time to learn and understand what you have and it would save you thousands of dollars for the time being. You can add it later when you bump up the juice.

You will also need turbo plumbing, a waste gate and a BOV. I can set you up with a W/G dump pipe.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8

Last edited by RarlyL8; 06-18-2007 at 06:22 PM..
Old 06-18-2007, 06:20 PM
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Thank you Brian!

Please pm details.
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Black 1985 Carrera ~ Whale Tail - Gone but not forgotten
2013 Boxster - Wifey Car
1969 Karmann Ghia - Next in line for restoration
"Driving in its most beautiful form"
Old 06-19-2007, 12:46 AM
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J Pipe explanation

Brian,

Please tell me what the two openings are for?

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Black 1985 Carrera ~ Whale Tail - Gone but not forgotten
2013 Boxster - Wifey Car
1969 Karmann Ghia - Next in line for restoration
"Driving in its most beautiful form"
Old 06-19-2007, 01:46 AM
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you really need a book about turbos to understand them, there are a lot out there.

my oil supply comes from where the idiot light sensor is, it's tee'd off from there. This is under the afm/airbox to the right of center line in the case.

Ben could make a afm flange

keeping carrera heat might be a problem the way the collector comes up from the bottom, the turbo is gonna come up through there.

yes you probably have to cut your engine tin

BOV goes on the intake side somewhere before the air goes through the throttle, so yes it gets welded to the tubing

todd's FRP goes in the same spot as the old one did.

I'd just get the LM1 from innovate, and a small 20 dollar gauge to put in the dash that connects straight to the LM1.
you'll be able to watch and record with the lm1 and laptop, after you're all set up you have the gauge for everyday driving. my lm1 is a permanent install.
also, there are other wideband systems out there that maybe more user friendly

without altering the stock fuel lines I don't know where I'd put a fuel sender. Mine is inline next to my aftermarket RRFPR.
batinc.net has the fittings to make a little jumper you can put somewhere

make sure your pump, injectors and lines are all good. You're gonna raise the pressure, keep that in mind.


me and other people have put up a ****load of pics
if you want something specific ask when you get to it.
Old 06-19-2007, 03:18 AM
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I backdated my heat to avoid issues with the blower being in the way of the turbo plumbing. .5 bar is the limit w/o intercooler, don't push it to .6. You'll make you're hp goals w/o the extra boost.

There is a test port on the fuel rail that you could have an adaptor set up for a pressure gauge.
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85 Targa
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2000 K1200rs (gone, due to above)
Old 06-19-2007, 04:32 AM
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I have extra afm flanges if you need one let me know. I have slowly been depleting my turbo stock as they sell poorly at best. I do sell allot of wastegates and bov's though.. I saw the turbo you got and that will work fine for the beginning.. No doubt you will change at one point.. The pipe brian posted shows o2 bung,turbo(t3 size) mounting flange, and 46 mm wastegate mounting flange.. I can also get the oil feed lines if you need one.. The LM-1 would be a very good idea to get it running properly and everything on the 3.2 tuning once the chip is installed is depended on fuel preuure and thats how you adjust things. .

Back to the turbo quickly A/R stands for air ratio and depending and the trim turbo and you expected goals you will change this accordingly.

phils,jerrys, and mine are all T4/TO4E 57 trim with .69 AR if memory serves correctly. It works very well for my needs. I f to do it all over I would suggest talking with a turbo rebuilder they see so many different turbos they can help select a better combination because of the broad experience.

Good luck
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Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4
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Old 06-19-2007, 05:03 AM
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Greg,

What parts are needed to back-date the heat and where do I get them? I just surveyed the engine bay, not a lot of room there. I can see where getting rid of the blower would provide more room.

Todd at Protomotive takes the plumbing from the drivers side and goes back behind the manifolds to the AFM. The way he does it, the heat does not have to be back-dated.
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Black 1985 Carrera ~ Whale Tail - Gone but not forgotten
2013 Boxster - Wifey Car
1969 Karmann Ghia - Next in line for restoration
"Driving in its most beautiful form"
Old 06-19-2007, 01:44 PM
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I got mine in fg from Thom (on this board) at vintagebus.com; but he's taken a sabatical. Lots of folks have them-if you get an old metal one you'll have to clearance it for the dizzy.
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Greg Lepore
85 Targa
05 Ducati 749s (wrecked, stupidly)
2000 K1200rs (gone, due to above)
Old 06-19-2007, 03:13 PM
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How much should I pay for a used J pipe?
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Black 1985 Carrera ~ Whale Tail - Gone but not forgotten
2013 Boxster - Wifey Car
1969 Karmann Ghia - Next in line for restoration
"Driving in its most beautiful form"
Old 06-20-2007, 07:51 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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I've seen them for $100, they generally run around $150.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-20-2007, 08:52 AM
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Hey Guys!

My turbo arrived, the first of many deliveries to come.

The hot side of the turbo is not shaped like my muffler. What is supposed to go here?

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Black 1985 Carrera ~ Whale Tail - Gone but not forgotten
2013 Boxster - Wifey Car
1969 Karmann Ghia - Next in line for restoration
"Driving in its most beautiful form"
Old 06-22-2007, 11:14 AM
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yup if you have a 930 or your 3.2 muffler they won't work. you need a custom setup..
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Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4
914-6werkshop.com ,heat exchangers, oil tanks, etc
Old 06-22-2007, 03:24 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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You can weld a turbo outlet flange to your current muffler if the inlet ID of the muffler matches your turbo's outlet ID.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 06-22-2007, 09:01 PM
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That's a Buick Grand National style flange-believe you can buy the mating flange from turbonetics. You'll need to have the pipe fab'd. The threads on those are notorious for stripping out-I have a similar turbo that came as part of a used kit, and at least two of them have been tapped next size up.
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Old 06-23-2007, 08:49 PM
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l had a V-band flange welded to mine to simplify exhaust mounting and adjustment,highly recommended.The back -date heat ducts are now available from performance products. l did my 1984 3.2 turbo conversion last year,it turned out very well.l initially tried to do it on the cheap and changed course and tossed the budget.l think it cost me about $5500 and l used the best parts available at the time.B&B 930 headers with heat T40s..60-1,72 A/R ,Tial 46mm,Powerhaus muffler , Turbo XS BOV ,BEGI FULLY adjustable FMU (the key to the good power figures) full bay intercooler , big throttle body , MSD ignition/Nology wires , on board wideband, exhaust gas temp , cylinder head temp , fuel pressure ,boost w/tell-tale guages....what else?....Hmmmm.l think that`s about it.Oh,l got the chip from Todd. l think it`s a stage one which has the most moderate timing curve.The extra power of stage two /three comes from timing advances and l`d rather play it safe with that. Future mods include digital before/after intercooler temp display and a water injection system.As it is right now the car runs very cool ever after a good thrash and the adjustability of the Bell (BEGI) FMU has played a huge part in allowing me to really dial in the power and AFR`s. l had Protomotive FPR(modified stocker) and at boost onset there was a lean condition l couldn`t tune out.l wouldn`t have known about this if l didn`t have the wideband.The fuel pressure guage with tell-tale has been invaluable also allowing super fine tuning of the fuel curve.
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:09 AM
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