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one of the great unwashed
 
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BAE Install Dyno Data

Well, the moment of truth arrived this afternoon, and the SC went to the dyno. I have more stuff to scan in, which I can post later. The results are pretty much what I figured they would be. Here is the first test scan of raw data:

7+ PSI boost



I was impressed that it kept making power to redline. It becomes a bit lean at that boost. I did some runs at 5, 5+ and 7+ PSI

Bottom line is it makes a net 90HP over the (basically the same stock engine) NA SC 3.0 engine. More to follow...

5 PSI



Pat
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Patrick E. Keefe
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Last edited by patkeefe; 09-05-2007 at 02:38 PM.. Reason: added jpeg
Old 09-05-2007, 02:29 PM
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Patrick E. Keefe
78 SC
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:25 PM
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Pat, if I am reading the graph correctly it looks like you are producing boost really late and then abruptly. Your horsepower doubles in less than 1000rpm. This would make for a on/off switch type of characteristic such as the stock early 930. Is that right?
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-05-2007, 08:03 PM
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Brian:
I have been thinking about this on the way to work this morning. I'd probably need to see a stock 930 graph for comparison. However, it is somewhat on-off once I get to the boost threshold, which I assume is a function of the turbocharger characteristics. I'd imagine a quicker spool turbo, like on a ricer, would have a much flatter curve and not have the same sharp slope as RPM increase. I haven't had a chance to analyze the data contained in the graphs, and there is still a lot of data on the dyno which we didn't print. I'll retrieve that next week. My concern at the moment is fuel delivery, or lack thereof, which appears to be the limiting factor in how much boost I can run. I think there are certain limitations with CIS which I am also contemplating (EFI HAS to be way more efficient).

So, if anyone has any other dyno charts, feel free to post them. It will be like a big lab experiment.
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Patrick E. Keefe
78 SC
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Old 09-06-2007, 04:17 AM
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I've seen your previous posts but can't remember what your setup is, can you post a picture of your engine?
Are you using the stock SC CIS? How is the fuel being enriched on boost?
EFI is more precise than CIS but has its own issues.
If you are using stock CIS you might consider replacing it with a stock 930 CIS. Entire functioning units can be had for under $1000 if you are interested in reaching your goals on a budget.
Swap your turbo out for a used 7200 or like turbo would give you a nice package with standard SC torque and an earler boost threshold.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-06-2007, 05:15 AM
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I believe I have some pictures in the prior BAE posts under my name; I'd post a link, but I have to go waste time at a meeting now. I have a basically stock SC CIS, with an IA modded fuel head and Brian Leask WUR. I have no extra injector. The only other performance mods are DC-15 cams and better valve springs. All other mods are reliability mods, like the ARP stuff. Turbo is an old Rajay, "V" trim, really, a straightaway BAE kit like tsuter has on his SC.

Pat
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:26 AM
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90 hp is a good gain.. I would susspect the turbo is a bit large for your application and does not spool quick enough. My car has some of the light switch response as well but not like yours.. A customer car of ours uses a t3/t4 turbo and that thing has a very flat curve and does not feel much faster but it is as the TQ curve is so flat you do not get the punch at a certain rpm. I have been thinking a nice gt30 or gt35r would be nice to have quick spool and fairly inexpensive. should you choose a k27 there is a place in wisconsin that sells brand new ones for 600 bucks or so
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:39 AM
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Ben:
To my knowledge, I am the only guy with a turbo conversion that has posted any dyno data. I would actually like to see some of the other converts, like yours or Jerry's, etc., with dyno charts for comparison. I am actually happy with the way this turned out, and I wanted the power band to be in this rev range for the track, as that power band is really not necessary for regular street use.

In the last couple of days, I did get to see a couple of factory 930 engines out of the cars. To be honest, I had never seen one on a stand before. I was surprised at the size of the compressor section on the K-series turbos. I probably should have looked at one before I reinvented the wheel 10 times over.

I could probably get a bit quicker spool with something other than the factory SC heat exchangers (likely flow improvement into the turbine). At this point in time, I have no plans to make any more mods to the engine; I got what I got, and that's it. Gotta get the 914 engine together next, that project is 8 months behind schedule.

My new muffler sounds pretty good, and probably contributed to the HP gains I see!!!

Pat
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:23 AM
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Pictures are here:BAE Rev 2.0 Install
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:29 AM
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I remember that engine now. Very nice looking.
What did iA do to the fuel head? Do you have a 930 adjustable WUR or an SC unit?
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-06-2007, 10:53 AM
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Brian:
IA modded the fuel head, exactly how I don't know. I asked what could they do, and they said we can get the AFR reduced by about a point. So, last year, on the old stock fuel head, I couldn't get enrichment below 13:1. So, they did come through as advertised.

Also, I went with a Brian Leask modded 930 WUR, which is a Bosch PN 0 438 140 153. It is fully adjustable WRT cold control pressure, warm control pressure, and boost enrichment pressure. Brian set the enrichment pressure to 2.3 bar at 5 PSI boost. I think if I fiddle with the enrichment pressure, I may be able to shift the AFR curve, and perhaps moderate the lean condition when boost pressure exceeds 6 PSI (using 12.5:1 as a nominal "safe" value).

Referencing the HP/AFR curves, I also think that the lean condition (on the 7.5 PSI graph; at 5 PSI the AFR stays below 12.5) may be affected by limitations of the SC fuel system to deliver enough fuel to support that boost. I have 72 PSI fuel pressure on my CIS test gauges. My options are at this point to deliver higher pressure to the fuel head (possible), deliver more fuel to the head (possible), shift the enrichment pressure curve (possible), lower my warm control pressure (possible), or add an extra injector and Hobbs switch to activate it. Some of the above options will simply enrich AFR across the board; I think further WUR enrichment pressure adjustment and addition of an extra injector are the best options.

The car runs fine at 5 PSI, but I still believe I can run 8 PSI. I also need to think about recurving the distributor, as soon as I can figure out what would be the optimum ignition timing. I am open to suggestion on the timing issues.

Pat
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Old 09-06-2007, 11:56 AM
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Reducing the A/F one point from 13.1 would be 12.1 which is perfect.
Your fuel pressure is inadequate. You need ~90psi at your HP level. I have never messed with the SC fuel head but I would presume that it contains the pressure regulator like the 930 unit does. If so you can increase your pressure at that point. The stock SC fuel pump will also be marginal at best. You can leave it and add the 930 rear unit or replace it with a larger flow unit of your choice.
The 153 WUR is a good unit. You should be able to do anything you want with it.
The timing on a turbo is set ~26* @ 4K and locked down for most applications. There is no active boost retard. I know Ben (M&K) has solved this issue on his car, there are others as well I am sure.
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'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 09-06-2007, 12:15 PM
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I was at 26 degress and had more of a light switch effect and with my current 28 it is more linear but that could be in my head. When off boost it goes to 32 degrees. so as soon as I have boost back down to 28 or 4 degrees less then what timing is set at.. I had supertec do my dizzy. as for dyno runs.. I should get to just have not had time nor desire. I am very porsched out for the mean time, just driving it for now, even ordered the pep rear seatbelts for my boys to ride in the car on some rally's this fall.. maybe spring do the dyno? like I said kind of porsche'd out with business and all.
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914-6werkshop.com ,heat exchangers, oil tanks, etc
Old 09-06-2007, 12:34 PM
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Thanks for that info, Brian. I did have some static retard in the SC distributor, but the car ran sort of crappy, so I went back to 5 BTDC static (stock factory SC settings), which I think put me around 28 total, IIRC.

I guess the 930 fuel pumps are a series configuration? That would probaby help. I'll first look into the fuel head pressure regulator, I believe he SC head has an accessible one. But, then, does the increase in pressure give an accross the board change in injector quantity? I'll mess around with it.

Ben, did you just use your original distributor and have Henry recurve it?

Thanks again!
Pat
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Old 09-06-2007, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patkeefe View Post
Thanks for that info, Brian. I did have some static retard in the SC distributor, but the car ran sort of crappy, so I went back to 5 BTDC static (stock factory SC settings), which I think put me around 28 total, IIRC.

I guess the 930 fuel pumps are a series configuration? That would probaby help. I'll first look into the fuel head pressure regulator, I believe he SC head has an accessible one. But, then, does the increase in pressure give an accross the board change in injector quantity? I'll mess around with it.

Ben, did you just use your original distributor and have Henry recurve it?

Thanks again!
Pat
yup!
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Current project 73 914-6 Gt project rusteration 2.4
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:22 PM
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I laughed when I saw the RUN ID hairdryer added

what do you think of the dynapack?
Old 09-06-2007, 11:28 PM
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Jerry
I laughed too when I saw it, but that's how KP separated this test from the prior ones. I had it on the dynapak two years ago to get a baseline hp, and last year to see what the problems were with the initial install. The dynapak seems like a good machine.

Did you ever get yours on a dyno? I'd be curious to see the results. BTW, the water injection works very well so far. I'll know more after Pocono next weekend.
Pat
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:28 AM
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That's cool,
the thing is baton rouge has one place for dyno work that's worth a **** and they are booked two weeks in advance all the time. I was sorta waiting on phil so we could do both at the same time. It just hasn't worked out yet.
And I've been working on a divorce since february, I'm being real lazy about the whole thing.
I bet it happens soon though, phil's probably getting another car and another guy wants to bring his vette over there two.
we'll see
Old 09-07-2007, 09:49 AM
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Track update:
Except for when I blew the connector off the turbo on the high pressure tube, the car seems to work pretty well. I can now use 5th gear where I used to use 4th at Watkins Glen. I have to re-learn to drive the car now...new Victoracers instead of street tires, extra power, and barely enough brakes. It's good!
Pat
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Old 09-19-2007, 04:00 PM
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Good job, Pat!!
Sounds like a cool setup - glad you got it running. Nice increases!

Doug
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:00 PM
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