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e170drvr's Avatar
 
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gsf header install

Hi Guys
Started hanging my new headers. I have everything bolted on, and I am having the same problem user Fredmeister, and others are having. the turbo outlet to the IC up pipe is sitting about a quarter inch too high. I bolted the old 3dlz back on, and can confirm it is a header issue and not the turbo, as the 3dlz sits the same quarter inch too high. I have decided to cut the bottom of factory up pipe and use 2 inch radiator hose to connect the two. My question is for the guys that have done this, I believe this was common before they started making the IA adaptors. Is this a good way to do this? does it seal properly? does it mess up the flow going to the IC?
Thanks for the help.
Eric
87 930
Old 11-25-2007, 11:22 AM
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I used this for the longest time with no problems. As long as you are properly clamped, it should be ok.
Old 11-25-2007, 11:26 AM
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Hey, thanks Don that's what I'm thinking too just thought I would bounce it off you fellas before I start cutting that expensive up pipe.

Eric
Old 11-25-2007, 11:33 AM
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One thing I would suggest is have someone weld a nipple to the pipe and build a small bracket to stabilize the pipe. I have had more cases than not eventually work the pipe loose and this simple bracket will stop this from happening. Of course you could also shorten the neck. If you don't have access to a tig measure it and sent it to me. I can weld it up.
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94 3.6Turbo 6-speed AWD
Old 11-25-2007, 03:48 PM
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You could also try cutting the outlet side of the turbo compressor housing down 1/4 inch or so before installing the machined adaptor. This is what I did to make it fit. I don;t like the idea of using silicone hoses more places than I need to and also did not want to start cutting the stock up-pipe.
How did you handle the turbo mounting bracket to the engine from the turbo? Did you get that to work or leave it off?
Good luck.

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 11-26-2007, 08:01 AM
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Ok, here is what I did. I ended up removing the adaptor from the k27S and taking some 2" radiator hose and putting about a 1" length over the compressor outlet this hose acts as a "bushing" and was able to put the factory up pipe down onto the outlet without cutting it at all and this sealed it perfectly, and by removing the adaptor, the height of the outlet was lowered allowing the IC to fit on top as it should. I will try to put a pic up. Fred, the bracket is not anywhere close to fitting, no matter what bending and slotting I do, so I ended up chucking the bracket. How did you end up getting the heat to work? I guess I will end up running some heater hose directly from the fan outlet all the way down to the header using some of those cheap reduction couplings you find at auto zone. fortunately I did not have the problems you had with the header heat outlet hitting the axle shafts.

Eric
Old 11-27-2007, 05:35 AM
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I wound up ditching the turbo bracket as well, because like you said no amount of slotting will make it fit. It needs to be cut and rewelded as well as slotted to fit. I do worry about the longevity of the headers with all that turbo weight hanging on them and will look into making something work this winter, when I fab up a zork tube for it.
As far as the heat I wound up cutting an inch out of the heat tube (that hit the axle) and having it flared so it would slip over the stub remaining on the heat exchanger. Then hose clamped it tight. Seems to work fine though flaring it larger split the tube at the weld line. I also had to use reduction coplings to make the connection to the supply side from the flexible heater tubing coming off the engine. It would have been nice if the GSF ingineers had made this tubing the same diameter as the OEM flex tubing.
The heat is not that great though like everyone seems to have found out, I almost wish I had gotten headers without heat. Saved some $$$$ and heartaches. SSI heat is so much better.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 11-27-2007, 07:14 AM
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OK, finally got time to finish this header install. Took it out yesterday, WOW!!! Now I know why everyone uses the word "transformed" when describing these mods (headers K27S, tial WG, all went in at the same time) The drivability for around town, and stop and go is sooo much improved. The torque off the line is a huge improvement, the turbo lag feels almost non-existant, starts spooling below 2000, I'm at max boost (.9 bar) below 3000rpm. The car is twice as fast it seems on boost, even though it doesn't have that retrorocket onset that it used to, now very linear. Anyone on the fence contemplating these mods, needs to pull the trigger, it is worth every penny!

On the downside I still have a couple issues to deal with, first I have a major oil leak from the supplied oil line where it conects in the case. Anyone know how to stop an oil leak with these big brass fittings? I have it pretty tight, it could go tighter but I am afraid to strip the threads.

Two, the heat arrangement is a nightmare, I still have to get some heater hose, and reduction couplings to get heat.

three, like others, the turbo sits a little too high, and the bumper and engine tin is getting awefully hot. Don't know what i'm going to do about this. The hot section of the turbo has room, but the cold section is almost touching the tin. maybe rig some kind of heat shield so I don't roast my bumper. Does anyone else have a hot bumper?

Anyway, I am real happy with the mods overall. Also happy to get rid of the rest of the air injection crap off of the car. These headers, turbo and wg, have been sitting in my garage for months, because I was terrified about breaking an exhaust stud. Turns out it was a non-issue, just soaked them in PB blaster, and all the nuts came off with just a little squeak with very little torque. The headers were a little disappointing with the fit, I think GSF could have done a better job, even though they were relatively cheap, still I would expect something I paid 1000 dollars for to fit better than they did. I will give credit to them in that all six exhaust ports fit perfectly and I have no leaks. When these headers crack I will look into Brian's SSI setup, wish they were available when I bought the GSF.

Eric
87 930 K27S Kokeln IC GSF headers TIAL WG @ .9 bar

Last edited by e170drvr; 12-03-2007 at 10:09 AM..
Old 12-03-2007, 10:07 AM
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The driveability is like you said, no lag.
Like nite and day, though the lag made the car seem faster.
Mine spools very early too, around 2000rpm or so.
The big question still on my mind is the lack of turbo support bracket and the heat being so poor on the headers. Anyway, longevity will have to be monitored and hopefully over time people with the GSF system will post on this forum how long before they cracked.
Going on 2 months and 1 track weekend on my set. Now the car is hibernating for the MI winter.
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 12-03-2007, 02:00 PM
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Fred, do you have a heat shield in your bumper? I was looking at the PET catalog. looks like there is a heat shield on the turbo cars. Mine does not seem to have it, now with the new setup I can cook sh@t on the rear bumper. Does anyone have a pic of the heat shield? I can't tell how it is installed from the parts diagram.

As for ditching the turbo bracket, I think I would actually put more stress on everything by trying to put it on, than leaving it off with the muffler straps correctly installed. I guess if i was running a zork I would be more concerned about the bracket. My neighbors would kill me if I started cruising around in the middle of the night "tuning" with a Zork.

Eric
87 930

Last edited by e170drvr; 12-03-2007 at 03:07 PM..
Old 12-03-2007, 02:58 PM
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I do have a heat shield inside the bumper. I do not have pictures to send you but it bolts up to the bumper using 10mm (socket size)screws.
If you look along the top edge of the bumper where it is sealed by the black rubber welting under the plastic Porsche trim piece between the tail lights you will see the tapped holes for it.
My bumper still gets really hot too even with the heat shield. I worry about the paint getting damaged.
Check to see if the engine sheet metal is touching the turbo housing as mine was and this dumps alot of heat into the engine and area too.
As far as a support bracket, as long as it is slotted it should be used to support the turbo weight, thermally the headers will be slightly restricted from growing, but since there are slip joints in the system, this alleviates alot of that. I am gonna fix mine to work with the K27 this winter.

Fred
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1979 930 Turbo....3.4L, 7.5to1 comp, SC cams, B&B intercooler, Snow Perf water/meth injection, Rarlyl8 headers, Garret GTX turbo, 36mm ported intakes, Innovate Auxbox/LM-1, custom Manually Adjustable wastegate housing (0.8-1.1bar),--running 0.7bar max
---"When you're racing it's life! Anything else either before or after, is just waiting"
Old 12-05-2007, 02:03 PM
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