Was the plug hole offset on the 993 TT?

I know I am questioning the norm, and that in an ideal world I would be planning on installing an intercooler. The trouble is that by the time I get a turbo tail and an intercooler, that is going to be another couple thousand. Additionally, I REALLY like the idea of maintaining the complete narrow body look. If I decide to go to a boost level much higher than what I presently intend, I know that I will need an intercooler. I'm just wondering if twin plugging provides any safeguard (though perhaps not AS effective) that intercooling would.

One more question: does the 964/993 dual cap rotor get in the way of the intake piping proceeding from the turbo to the intake manifold?

I do know that Andial fits dual distributors to 993TT's but do not know what is involved.

I to like the idea of a stock deck w a turbo. It seems that without the A/C condenser one can fit an inter-cooler and I have seen a couple of installs. I also though of just using a shorter condenser and putting the I/C to the right or left side. It would not be as large.

In BA's book he notes that a small I/C on a low pressure supercharged Porsche that even though it was not in the air flow reduced intake air temp from 175 to 125.

That is more power and more safety.

Keep up the good work.

great thread,you`ll have quite a road car when you`re done. l say road car because with no intercooler the track will be out of the question. lntercoolers are cheap these days,less the $500- for a universal unit that you can relocate the pathways on,after all the motor work why cook the power out of it? l find there is a huge "porsche tax" on intercoolers and l see no reason to spend the money just because the inlet/outlets are configured for a flat six. l paid less then $500- for my full bay unit (no mods were needed)runs very cool under full boost.

My aim has been to create a turbo road car, so thank you! My many advisers believe I should be safe to run without an intercooler as long as I keep the boost low. I am trying to keep the costs down... My budget has more than doubled since my first conversation with Ben. I ultimately want to have a twin plugged and intercooled motor. I'm leaning towards twin plugging first because it seems like this would be more work with the motor back in the car, whereas adding an intercooler seems pretty straight forward.

bump

Andy, yes the dual cap gets in the way of a stock location single turbo charge pipe. Now what some have done to correct this is make a 90 degree elbow out of the turbo, go up into the fender well and enter the engine bay through the side of the fender well. Some do not like this as it requires cutting a hole in the wall between the engine bay and the fender well, but it is effective. This is the route I am going to take when I get my junker back together with the 964 distributor.

Kris, do you think I could just augment the hole in the engine tin and bring the charge pipe up at an angle? Maybe use a 45 degree silicone bend.

Look in Bruce Anderson's book at the picture of how RUF made his charge pipe for the 964's for some ideas. I think he just snaked around the distributor.

It would be difficult, but I guess it is possible. I just know what a pain in the a$$ it was trying to fab up a pipe for a single turbo, 12 pin distributer (JB racing), I can only imagine how hard it would be with a twiin cap as the bottom cap stands even further into the way. However give it a shot, it could be easier with a smaller turbo. The car that I am speaking of has a PT-76 with a 3" outlet on the cold side...

I have a Precision 6162 with a 2 inch outlet. Hopefully it'll be easier.

Might be possible, but its going to be tight.

I would agree mine looks like a snake to say the least!

it looks like your piping is doing yoga

Would you mind posting a pic? If you could show one from directly above the dizzy, that'd be great.

If my car was here I would! You would have to ask Kris to take a pic since my car is in his garage right now lol.

I'm reading about some single cap twin plug distributors. Is there one that would work for my setup? It would be nice to have only one cap instead of 2...

I have the JB 12 plug in mine. It is a single cap

Where can I get one and how much do they normally run?

http://www.jbracing.com/


Call and ask for Jim. Tell him Eric Hood sent you

I decided to pull the trigger on a 964 twin-plug distributor. Dave from Road & Race hooked me up with a rebuilt one at a decent price. For anyone that's interested, here's a list of the parts I purchased to complete the twin plugging (heads were already drilled):
1. 964/993 Dizzy with new caps/rotors
2. Andial Splitter
3. Extra Coil
4. Two coil mounts welded together
5. Special ordered set of Magnecor spark plug cables for the lower plugs (Same length as the lower plug wires for a 964 but with 911 connectors).
6. 14 gauge wire to connect splitter to coils.
7. Vent kit for 964 dizzy
8. Drilled lower valve covers (yet to be completed)

I haven't figured out how I'm going to run the 14 gauge wire from the splitter to the coils. Any suggestions? I also need to run the wire for the LM-1, so maybe I can have them travel a common path.

The cylinders & pistons are in (again). Probably won't get much done over the holiday weekend, but next week is looking VERY promising :)

YUM! Sounds like a good time would be had by all!!

Andy,

What kind of budget did you start with and where are you now? I am thinking about going the same route and I am trying determine if it would be cheaper just to sell my 3.2L and put a 3.3L turbo in the car?

Thanks,

Mark

Hi Mark,

I started with a $5,000 budget, but that was before I decided to go to 3.3L Mahle pistons & cylinders and twin plug. You really don't get into much trouble until you tear the engine down... it takes on a will of its own at that point. The budget has probably nearly doubled by now. I will add it all up eventually, but, I'd rather not know until after it's done so I can enjoy it all :)

In short, yes, it'd be cheaper to swap a 3.3L turbo for your engine, but you may even want to consider selling your car and just buying a 930. The brakes, suspension, and rear wing are all aspects you will eventually want/need anyway with a narrow body carrera. Additionally, a 930 will maintain its value better than a turbo Carrera.

If money is not as much of a concern or if you can't front the higher $$ amount for a 930, modifying a Carrera is a good option. The intake plenum, cylinder heads, transmission and electronic engine management system have its benefits over a 930. For me, I really wanted the opportunity to learn and work on my car as I had never touched an engine before this project. I'm really looking forward to the satisfaction of seeing the engine going from torn apart into a running machine :D

well put. for me was I wanted a 930 but my wife did not want anymore selling or buying of cars so I just made my own 930 of sorts. The benifits are really learning to do things for your self, if you have a 3.2 carrera the managment itself is great over CIS with today's tech like protomotive chips etc, then there is the g50 if you have 1 there is nothing better ogf a combo.

The major cost is if you break something like pistons BTDT. the best engine to start with is a carrera 3.2 and do the following as this really is the cheapest and safest route


3.3 p&C's can find them used all over the place$400-1500
proto motive chip$400?
BEGI rising rate fuel pressure reg $200
930 headers/ carrera heatexchangers/930 j pipe or the likes $300-2000 depending on your taste.
turbo $300-$1500
pressure piping and bov $500
oil lines/feed,drain $300
WG $100-500
930 muffler $100-1000

This kind of gives you of a bare bones conversion on a known engine.

FINALLY made some progress tonight!!! Here some pics of tonight's progress:

Supertec Head Studs and turbo cylinders

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1216869522.jpg



Valve job and twin plug done by Supertec

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1216869607.jpg



Long Block back together

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1216869632.jpg

great stuff Andy!!

That's going to be one great car! Good call on doing the twin-plugging. Without the intercooler and with relatively high C/R you'll need it more than ever.

If you get any money left over, please try to find an intercooler and install it. Even if it's used, banged-up dirty unit. When everything starts to work you'll be tempted to raise the boost and intercooler will come very handy.

A gentleman fom Norway posted pictures of his water/air intercooler not too long ago, it's worth checking out (and it's a very neat installation that can be fitted under the lid of narrow-bodied car).

Thanks guys :)

I was actually writing this up when I saw your post: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/421647-turbo-tail-engine-lid-c-mods-carrera.html :) Enough time will have transpired by the end of this project that I can replenish my resources just to dump them all over again :D

Very nice:cool:. I'm ready to see this thing complete.

Put the cams and everything in the cam housings in last night and timed it. MUCH more to come tomorrow!! :D

Very nice!!!
Andy your kicking ass with that thing, keep going!

The engine is back together!!! We should have the engine back in the car sometime next week. The only things left to figure out (aside from the tuning) is the wiring of the Andial splitter, turbo charge pipe plumbing, and the air filter plumbing. It's going to be a little tricky to work around the 964 dizzy, but I think we should be OK. I've got a backdated left side engine shroud on the way next week. I'm hoping I can get a pipe from the turbo up to the hole in the left shroud so the air filter can be inside the engine bay. If I can't, then I'll stick with an elbow off the turbo for now.

I was taking the bumper off tonight and broke one of the studs holding the right bumper buffer. Anyone ever tried repairing/replacing one of these studs?

MUCH more to come soon :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217123252.jpg

Andy, make sure you have enough slack in the wiring harness to reach back to the connector in the engine compartment. From the pic you posted it looks like you routed the harness though 2 &3... you might want to check your old pics to see if it was routed between 1 & 2... I was short of cable when I put mine back in and had to pull off a lot of stuff to reroute the cable to get enough slack to plug it back in... just a little wisdom I gained during my endeavor...

Andy, make sure you have enough slack in the wiring harness to reach back to the connector in the engine compartment. From the pic you posted it looks like you routed the harness though 2 &3... you might want to check your old pics to see if it was routed between 1 & 2... I was short of cable when I put mine back in and had to pull off a lot of stuff to reroute the cable to get enough slack to plug it back in... just a little wisdom I gained during my endeavor...

Hey guys,

I have a quick favor to ask. Can someone running stock heat exchangers & the J pipe take a picture of the clearance between your turbo and the LHS timing cover? My compressor discharge pipe shoots horizontally as opposed to the stock KKK turbos. I have the 90 degree elbow to install on it, but I want to make sure there won't be any clearance issues. Here's a pic of the turbo I'll be running:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217214122.jpg

Thanks guys.

Just re-clock the turbo. Most turbochargers allow to move compressor housing in step-less manner. If not, you can move it in 60-degree increments.

Brilliant! If you can't already tell, I'm a nube at this :rolleyes:

We've got the new clutch assembly on and we're ready to mate it up to the tranny tomorrow night.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217391749.jpg

Here's where we're going to snake around the 964 dizzy:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1217391735.jpg

Andy, looking good, you're gonna love it.

Thanks Jerry - I'm getting psyched!

I just want to clarify a few things regarding tuning with the LM-1. It's my understanding that the O2 sensor for the LM-1 should be connected after the turbo, in the muffler. While tuning, should I pull out the stock O2 sensor and cap the J-pipe? Or do I leave it in? When the tuning process is finished, should the stock O2 sensor should be in the J-pipe (before the turbo)?

Regarding the vacuum lines.... Should the top fitting on the Tail Wastegate vent to the atmosphere and the one on the middle be connected to the turbo?

If you have a 3.3 L, most folks DC the stock O2 sensor. The Top of the Tial vents to atmosphere. The one in the "middle" usually picks off the side of the IC.