Latest Project - Headers

[911st]

I know no one would think of putting an exhaust slip joint 'in' a heat exchanger.

If we think we do not want them inside the HE, how cofident are we we can keep any leakage from making it into the HE even if they are on the outside?

Maybe the motor keeps the HE's pressurized from the motors cooling fan. If this is the case, leaks would be from in to out of the HE which should keep any exhaust out.

I do not know if it is possable, say at idle, for the booster blowers in the cab to move more CFM than the cooling fan such that a vaccum could be created in the HE such that exahaust could be pulled in.

I do not recall but stock HE's might also have gaps around the tubes (though they do not have potental to leak exhaust near them) so maybe the HE is always pressurized with fresh air and this is a non issue.

Just thinking out loud.

Originally Posted by WERK I

...
The area around the slip joint has carbon tracking and some noise is emanating from the joint, nothing when cold, worst when engine is fully up to temperature. I think it is the metal to metal wear from heat cycling and an imperfect joint.

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Bolting together the prototype heat exchangers today. These are what the end result will look like, the only changes left are to tighten up the gaps and position the screw holes. I may add metal tubes that attach to the stock heat ducts or just use longer heat ducts. That decision will come when I bolt these onto my car.
So far this has been extremely easy. I'll let you know if that continues when I bolt them onto the bottom of my functioning engine. Whatever needs to be changed will as these must bolt on pain-free. The material is aluminum so they will bend fairly easy to allow some forgiveness as the headers are hand built and not exactly identical. ...

That is a clean look.

[RarlyL8]

Yes Keith the heat exchangers are always under pressure so leak from in to out.
The slip joints are machine fit and pretty tight. They seal up when hot and mine show no signs of leaking anywhere.

[tj930]

Great work, Brian! Really look the business.

You'll know more about this than I do but - speaking from personal experience - my only thought it that the spring is going to get fiercely hot, and thousands of heat cycles is going to see it losing its elasticity. (But I'm guessing it doesn't matter too much.)

[911st]

Good to hear.

Looks like a tiddy lay out.

It just looked a bit like if there was a leak that with the exhaust's pressure and with the slip joints pointed in the HE direction it had a bit of a chance of getting under the interferance fit of the HE.

[e170drvr]

Well, on my set that pipe is not going anywhere even without the springs. The joint is very tight and only has enough give to be adjusted.

[RarlyL8]

The springs serve little function after the initial few heat cycles and can likely be removed. The reason they are used is to allow the headers to move around during those first few heat cycles until they settle in. Vibration with a bit of spring tension keeps the tubes pulling together during that time.

[Carrerax]

Any idea when these will be available? Very interested in a set for a 3.2ss

[RarlyL8]

That's the $64K question. The company cutting the patterns has had many setbacks that are being worked through. I won't release them before I am satisfied with the fit and function.
You'll see it here first!

[Carrerax]

Cool. any idea on price?

[RarlyL8]

I'm selling the heat exchangers at cost. This is for all the faithful who purchased headers with the promise of heat exchangers to come.
It has been a painful process but they are getting closer to release. Still a couple of tweaks before they meet my approval.

Thought I would also share this bit of last weekend's work with you. Built this set of 934 exit pipes for a fellow in Germany who also has my headers. No reason for posting other than they just look cool.

[kenikh]

Well now the picture in my mind's eye regarding post turbo plumbing has finally seen the light of day. AWESOME.

At least very close...I still have a trick or two up my sleeve.

[911st]

Headers look great in place.

Well done.

[Kraftday]

I see many cool projects and Porsche systems in development and truly do support and encourage such technology, but I feel it is only fair justice and a matter of respect to acknowledge one of the industries true original pioneers, Bob Holcombe of MODE.

Over the years, I've seen soooo many people using MODE parts as default template with no credit given! Bob is an amazing engineer and the genuine article (22 year Porsche motorsport veteran). I'm seeing similar looking device designs dating back 10+ years being labeled as their own development and designs.

MODE has for most part been behind the scenes and under radar to the public sector but the designs and quality have always been there. This is totally unsolicited and don't want to jack any thread. Sorry to vent, just wanted to keep it real people!

[RarlyL8]

I hope you are not implying that I ripped off mode's design. A few weeks back when you sent me this picture I told you I had never seen it before and was pleasantly surprised at the convergent evolution.
My headers were developed using the ideas of many different tried and true designs. As you said "there are only so many ways to configure equal length headers", which is quite true and why our headers looks so much alike. The most recent set of headers from Holcomb that I have seen look a bit different than those above. To my knowledge they are no longer available.
What is real is that I did a lot of research and work configuring a set of "ultimate" 930 headers that came out looking very similar to something that previously existed. Physics does not change so I shouldn't have been that surprised when I saw these. So if my work is to be dismissed as a rip-off I guess I can still hang on to the fact that we can make and sell them in 321 stainless for less than 2/3 the cost of the originals from 10 years ago. MADE IN THE USA.

[Kraftday]

Brian (RarlyL8), think you have me confused with someone else. I don't remember sharing these "Top Secret" photos with anyone else on here??

How do you get any work done when you have to reply!?

(As it relates, notice the double slip joints on those MODE headers.)

In any event, I totally dig your creations and it looks like you level of quality is way up there. Didn't mean to discredit your massive energy and costs. Sure, designs evolve similar and not implying yours or anyone's here are direct copies. Not everyone has access to multi-million manufacturing equipment.

Just wanted to show my respect and keep it fresh..especially since I've been apart of machining many components and creations there. Just a little discourage when I see the wheel being re-invented over and over.

I support that your production is also MADE IN USA. If timing is right, the MODE headers can be ordered for a steal. Maybe you too can order some trick flanges from MODE as production manufacturing is more the game there.

No comment about motorsport equipment and price-point production...

[JFairman]

There's another brand of nicely made or nice looking equal length 930 headers that DonE had on his motor.

He took them off though because he found they made less horspower than the shortie headers on the dyno he had on the car previously so he switched back to them.
I think he said those were B&B headers.

There's a highly advertised and hyped 3.5 liter Bob Holcomb built hot rod 930 EFI motor said to make 5-600 HP for sale on Pelican and Ebay and for some reason it has new B&B headers with heat exchangers on it.

Stephen Kasper of now out of business Imagine Auto used to post on Rennlist alot and I remember a post where he said he tested GHL vs B&B headers on the dyno in his shop.
He said the B&B made the most horsepower of all the shortie headers available at that time a few years ago.
B&B headers with heat were on my car when I bought it so I'm not promoting them because I spent money on them...

I'd search for the post where Don said that recently but the software > search function this forum uses is frustrating.. and I'm also not sure if I'm remembering the spelling of his login correctly.

I have no doubts equal length headers make more horsepower on a normally aspirated motor with very low backpressure in the headers so the scavanging effect in the collector should be strong and as effective as possible.

I have Stahl equal length headers on my old 6 cylinder BMW and also had them on my last BMW 2002 but I have never seen proof equal length headers make more horsepower than B&B shortie headers on the rear engine turbocharged 930 series which has very high backpressue in the headers because of the turbo.

Short headers take up less space and weigh less too.

. . .so it goes

[e170drvr]

Brian, what's the word on those heat exchangers? Hope to have a heat solution by winter. Still loving the headers!!!

[gsmith660]

Originally Posted by Kraftday

I see many cool projects and Porsche systems in development and truly do support and encourage such technology, but I feel it is only fair justice and a matter of respect to acknowledge one of the industries true original pioneers, Bob Holcombe of MODE.

Over the years, I've seen soooo many people using MODE parts as default template with no credit given! Bob is an amazing engineer and the genuine article (22 year Porsche motorsport veteran). I'm seeing similar looking device designs dating back 10+ years being labeled as their own development and designs.

MODE has for most part been behind the scenes and under radar to the public sector but the designs and quality have always been there. This is totally unsolicited and don't want to jack any thread. Sorry to vent, just wanted to keep it real people!

You say you are not yelling copycat but that is exactly what I hear you saying and that is bad form to me I may be getting into this late but I am just sayin!

[RarlyL8]

He took them off though because he found they made less horspower than the shortie headers on the dyno he had on the car previously so he switched back to them.

Jim - there is more to that story. Don's equal length headers did not match his engine. The primaries and secondaries were too big which will kill spool. I spoke with Don about that when designing Brad's headers.

Brian (RarlyL8), think you have me confused with someone else. I don't remember sharing these "Top Secret" photos with anyone else on here??

I'm not sure what your intensions are Mr. Day but they don't seem friendly. If you look back through the pages of this thread and others you will see references to Holcomb, Mode, Manzie and more. All those headers look like mine is some regard.
Those photos are not "top secret". Someone sent them to me a few weeks ago. We traded e-mails as they wanted to do business. Thought it was you. I talk to lots of different people from all over the globe every day so yes I could easily have you confused with someone else.

I have never seen proof equal length headers make more horsepower than B&B shortie headers on the rear engine turbocharged 930 series

I posted a dyno graph Jim and also openly challenge anyone to test my headers against anything on the market. The skeptics even posted short tube manufacturer's dyno graphs which were not as impressive as mine. I have replaced every major brand with mine and by the word of the owners they out-perform them all.
My policy stands that if for any reason you are not happy with my products I will refund the purchase price. I have bought back a couple of Zork tubes because they were too loud, I have yet to buy back a set of headers.

Holcomb, Mode, and Manzie equal length headers are considered the ultimate in high performance. Mine are nearly identical yet still thought inferior, by some, to generic short tube headers. I scratch my head to that.

[gsxrken]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Holcomb, Mode, and Manzie equal length headers are considered the ultimate in high performance. Mine are nearly identical yet still thought inferior, by some, to generic short tube headers. I scratch my head to that.

Branding. Does Nike make a "better" shirt, or sneaker, than anyone else? Of course not.

"A brand is a collection of perceptions in the mind of the consumer." When I hear those names you mentioned I think of hallowed ground; race shops that crank out full-tilt efforts that I'll never be able to attain. You could make a better anything, but "RarelyL8" doesn't have the panache that they do (yet, anyway). You probably could have done better than "RarelyL8" from a business image standpoint. It sounds like a license plate. That said, I was one of your earliest header purchasers because I make my own mind up about these things and liked your offering for a number of reasons.

Keep up the good work. You're building your reputation- those guys already have. Merck has a saying over their corporate HQ doors that says something like- "if you remember the people, the profits will follow".

PS- would like to see some pics/facts about that intercooler you are prototyping. New thread?