Latest Project - Headers

[NathanUK]

I have a G50/01 but I cannot be certain that it is 100% stock and I estimated by using a GPS device and my rev counter that approx 160mph at 6000rpm is possible.

Oh, and I didn't expect anything else from Brian & Ben either. Brian makes a big effort to make all his parts interchangeable (I forget the correct term), high quality & at a price that is sensible.

[RarlyL8]

The secondary pipes proved to be quite a challenge to keep equal length.
Here is where we are now. Both secondary pipes are right at 15" long at the midline. I was able to keep the stock oil line
I now have a plan to go back and try to retain the stock rectangular oil tank. That is why the elephant's nose has been cut off in the photo. A good boost signal is mandatory and keeping the oil tank secondary. I think I can do both. We'll see ...

[Miguel Antonett]

You're the man...

[911st]

Well done!

Should be very efficient.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

This looks great! But do you plan to keep spring-loaded collectors? This works on N/A cars with low backpressure but turbocharged cars can have over 2 bar of backpressure between heads and turbo. Will it not leak between the seams? Is it possible to assemble the headers if collectors are fully welded to headers?

Regards,

[RarlyL8]

Goran,
Yes I would prefer to weld the collectors on but there are a couple of dynamics going on at that spot. We need to allow the metal to expand with heat to prevent stress cracks.
When the Y-pipe is assembled to the headers there is very little movement possible. The collector primaries are also several inches long and fit very tight. If the springs don't work as planned we may use bolts in oversized holes to allow a controlled amount of movement.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Goran,
Yes I would prefer to weld the collectors on but there are a couple of dynamics going on at that spot. We need to allow the metal to expand with heat to prevent stress cracks.
When the Y-pipe is assembled to the headers there is very little movement possible. The collector primaries are also several inches long and fit very tight. If the springs don't work as planned we may use bolts in oversized holes to allow a controlled amount of movement.

If you've made it from 2mm tubing then cracks shouldn't be such a issue? 321 is 304 with some Titanium alloyed in for extra temperature margin, right? Being quite long, it should handle temperature-expansion quite well, by bending downwards? 321 has heat expansion coefficient of 18mm/m at roughly 500 degree C. Which means (very roughly) about little less of half of inch fot total length (if it was perfectly straight).

Is it possible to mount the system into it's final position, then heat the collector and seam-weld collector merge pipes with TIG as much as possible with system in place (to prevent warping), then take of the system and seam-weld the spots which were left over?

After you subjected the joint to few heat-cycles and full-boost runs you will see if it's tight or not (if not you'll see carbon residue at pipe joins).
Maybe you could do some clever gasket thing using copper O-ring around each merge?

I'm looking forward to results after first run! It's a clever design from both packaging and performance point of view.

Regards,

[RarlyL8]

There is more to the story. The primary header design is going to be used for both the 930 and 911. The 911 application does not require 321 and will be T304.
Yes I will be looking for carbon tracking at all joints but really expect to see none. My mufflers are modular design also and do not leak after a couple of heat cycles.
Wait 'till you see the waste gate pipe. If I can do what I am planing it will be fantastic.

[911nut]

Brian, will ground clearance near the secondary merge be an issue?

[RarlyL8]

I've taken note of the Y merge and ground clearance. The driver's side pipe hangs down the lowest and is just a tad lower than the stock turbo oil tank. The aftermarket GSF oil tank hangs lower. So no I don't think it will be an issue. I am going to tweak that spot and gain 1/2" of ground clearance though in the name of symmetry.
On a side note I am looking for a 965 for a test fit. I lost my test car as the owner recently totalled it in an accident. These pipes should fit a 965. When I finish the secondary I will mount the entire system on my mule motor and turn it upside down for some good pix. My car is on a lift now but the pictures are much better using the mule motor as it can be posed.

[WinRice]

Looking very nice!

Any hints on how you are going to integrate heat? Similar to a Mode design around the collector?

No A/C on my car, but I definitely need heat.

[RarlyL8]

Will work on the heater boxes once the headers are in production. No firm design as there are still decisions to be made that affect the area available. THE design constraint on exchangers is they must produce real heat, not that luke warm BS that some other manufacturers call heat. I am from IL and enjoyed nothing better than driving the turbo when it was zero outside. The turbos love the cold but I need heat!

[WinRice]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

The turbos love the cold but I need heat!

My thoughts exactly!

[DonE]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

The turbos love the cold but I need heat!

In Alabama??

Big baby....

[RarlyL8]

Ha! No Don, in Illinois. I don't even wear a coat down here. I keep my snowmobile suit in the closet just for fun and have my worn out snow shovel hanging on my garage wall as a trophy of sorts. Got a set of studded ice tires stacked in the corner as well. They are novelty conversation starters and apparently the thing of myths around here as nobody can believe we actually run them on the highway up north.
I do plan to have a set of exchangers on my headers. Average nightly low in Jan is 32* and it has dusted snow a couple of times. The wife gets cold you know ...

[RarlyL8]

I revised the driver's side secondary pipe to tuck it up 1/2" which makes it symmetrical with the passenger's side. Had to re-angle the connection in order to gain back the 1/2" lost in height. These secondary pipes are equal length as are the primaries so changing anything becomes involved.
I believe I have figured out the best way to plumb the waste gate pipe while retaining the stock early oil sump tank. The popular aftermarket tanks will fit as well, I have already tried both on to see. If I can pull this off these will be the only headers I know of that do not require you to spend $250 on oil lines and another $100 on the aftermarket turbo oil sump tank. They will also be the only ones with equal medium length primaries and secondaries.

[JBL930]

Awesome, what more could anyone want? Free fitting anywhere in the world! Only joking Top job Brian, very very cool

[fredmeister]

very good work. you da man!
do you have plans to dyno test a set of GSF or OBX headers which are the most popular upgrade now against your design?
Apart from the obvious difference in quality of material and construction of your set, it would be good to claim a power and driveability improvement as well.

[RarlyL8]

I have no plans to dyno OBX or similar headers. Those are cheap Asian products and will never be bolted to anything I own. (By the way I am an OBX dealer and have never sold the first set after seeing the lack of quality. Using them is a crap shoot that I am unwilling to warrant.)
All of my dyno work uses the stock J-pipe exchangers as a baseline. I do not expect magical HP increases over headers of other designs. These headers were designed to address common problems associated with current aftermarket offerings. What I expect is better quality, better fitment, longevity, and ease of installation. I also expect a better boost signal which will eliminate the boost creep commonly seen in high HP applications.
The merge collectors and equal length pipes will be a gain over typical unequal short pipe systems but how much of a gain depends on application. If I can keep the price point anywhere close to B&B etc then all these features add up to great value. THAT'S what I'm shootin' for.

[Miguel Antonett]

stay focused.