Latest Project - Headers

[mb911]

I have seen turbo shaft break apart before that can cause big problems on both sides of the turbo

[gsmith660]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

OBX is a crapshoot. The guys who win post here, the guys who blow a turbo and engine are embarrassed and keep it to themselves. Percentages? No idea but even one is too many. As I have stated before, I can sell anything so have the luxury to pick and choose. I won't chance a $15K+ engine when it comes to products that can potentially do harm (cheap wastegates for example). This product was born from these experiences and the desire to address all of the shortcomings current to the aftermarket. Believe me it would have been a lot easier to not do this and just be a dealer of whatever is out there, ha!
I do understand cost. I am a middle class enthusiast who happens to like the 930. Every effort is being made to contain costs short of chaining my kids to a welder for committing political crimes.

Im not too embarrassed to post my f--k ups just look at my other thread. Your headers are a work of art and would like to put them on the new motor but I want heat.

[RarlyL8]

Heat is coming. The exchangers I have in mind will be bolt-on to retrofit headers in the field and as an easy fix should they become damaged for whatever reason. I will post those pictures when complete.
Some folks do post after the fact when bad things happen which helps us all learn. I'd like to think that most issues are resolved between the buyer and seller first so don't make it into the public forum. Customer service is another topic that affects price. The level of customer service generally correlates with the price of the product. There simply isn't any money in an inexpensive product to pay for customer support.

[gsmith660]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Some folks do post after the fact when bad things happen which helps us all learn. I'd like to think that most issues are resolved between the buyer and seller first so don't make it into the public forum.

I have learned my lesson on that also I wont post in a public forum about cust. service again unless it starts out with "they just told me to get screwed" and it cant be resolved! I really am embarrassed about that incident.

[stup]

My engine means as much too me as anyones does,,especially when its all my own graft going into it and I would not risk MY engine either with something i was not confident with!!

With my Precision Engineering backround and hands on experience of manufacturing from scratch components regularly with tolerances down to +- 0.0002"(2 tenths of a thou) I would like to think i have a good enough view about what to fit and not to fit after i cleaned up and inspected my cheaper branded headers with inspection camera. My view was i was more than happy to run them and as the miles churn on, this is just confirming my opinion

Absolute no hidden agenda here just stating my facts,I do not sell these headers..My view about this forum was to qoute your actual experiences with products and that is what i do whether its good or bad!

Please note...I do not expect any failures at all after my engine rebuild but there is several more components i could see fail first before "my inspected headers" could fail and cause engine damage.

Again looks a good product you have and if they prove to have some gains for me i would be possibly interested.

[911st]

Originally Posted by mb911

I have seen turbo shaft break apart before that can cause big problems on both sides of the turbo

I have heard of that from a malfunctin of the compressor bypass valve.

Are you saying you have seen such a shaft brake from smallish metal fragements going through the turbine wheel?

Thx.

[911st]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

She'd leak pretty good if I filled it with water right now, ha!
Interesting thought about total capacity. The stock exchangers most likely have less total capacity because they are basically just one long tube instead of a bunch of tubes like I have. I don't plan to check that just take it to the dyno and see what happens in the real world.

The waste gate is located in that spot for packaging purposes as that is very close to the stock position so you can hook up the stock banjo fittings to the waste gate and have plenty of room for the muffler system. I have a dual waste gate system developed as well that puts one waste gate per bank Y'ed off directly after the header. Very short tubes there.

I know of several turbos blown by aftermarket headers. A phone call and conversation with any turbo builder will confirm that this is not uncommon. I know of one engine damaged and that was caused when header slag hit the turbine wheel damaging the bearings sending metal filings into the oil. May have avoided engine damage had the car been shut down immediately and the complete oil system flushed.

The bearing failure sounds interesting and passable.

Not talking about your lay out, so if one wanted to mount the WG near the turbo there is not heat reasons, just packaging issues.

Thx.

[RarlyL8]

Yes I have seen custom headers with the waste gate immediately off the Y-junction. The muffler went to the passenger's side and the waste gate went to the driver's side. There was no turbo oil tank in that application so no interference there.

[911st]

Interesting, thank you!

[mb911]

Originally Posted by 911st

I have heard of that from a malfunctin of the compressor bypass valve.

Are you saying you have seen such a shaft brake from smallish metal fragements going through the turbine wheel?

Thx.

when that baby is spinning 110,000 rpms and it gets wacked with a chunck of metal thrown in the mix you know whatas going to heppen

[JBL930]

One of my BOV.s failed, caused the turbo to stall, hot side spins and cold side doesn't, it basically dismantled itself. Then with the other turbo still sucking air it draged the nut from the end of the shaft back down the intake and that one distroyed itself too. The turbos had about 200 miles on them

[911st]

I guess I would not expect something small that comes free from a weld and hitting the turbine wheel to create the kind of torque that it would take to break a shaft. My gut tells me the probability would be for it to bounce around off the spinning blades like a Pacheco ball and chew them up. Then the turbo would go out of balance an go soft.

A BOV malfunction would seem to create a lot more torque and load than a small piece of slag.

I have wondered when my past popular shorty after market headers cracked at the Y if anything might have come lose that could do damage. That might be what happened to my K29 as the turbine was some what chewed up when it started going soft.

Not a turbo expert and have not seen enough failures to know if this is a big risk. Sounds more like a low probability but not imposable.

Just a guess and pure speculation.

[mb911]

Originally Posted by 911st

I guess I would not expect something small that comes free from a weld and hitting the turbine wheel to create the kind of torque that it would take to break a shaft. My gut tells me the probability would be for it to bounce around off the spinning blades like a Pacheco ball and chew them up. Then the turbo would go out of balance an go soft.

A BOV malfunction would seem to create a lot more torque and load than a small piece of slag.

I have wondered when my past popular shorty after market headers cracked at the Y if anything might have come lose that could do damage. That might be what happened to my K29 as the turbine was some what chewed up when it started going soft.

Not a turbo expert and have not seen enough failures to know if this is a big risk. Sounds more like a low probability but not imposable.

Just a guess and pure speculation.

I use to see it on the unmaned predetors all the time as we built the engines for them and other small aircraft. people would build their own exhaust and pieces would break off and well it was not good..


On this subject though it is just a much larger possibility

[A930Rocket]

I can tell you what happens when you get FOD in a new turbo on a new engine with new headers (25 miles)...

What didn't help was that I had my timing off and had it retarded. Headers got hot, very hot and probably dislodged a piece of metal.

[911st]

That dose not look good!

Did it just kill the turbo or the motor to?

Where they cheap import headers or well built after market?

[billjam]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

I can tell you what happens when you get FOD in a new turbo on a new engine with new headers (25 miles)...

What didn't help was that I had my timing off and had it retarded. Headers got hot, very hot and probably dislodged a piece of metal.

I agree
However, I can't believe that that damage was due to some rubbish falling off the inside of a new header. I know the fan is spinning pretty fast, but surely it would still require something with a bit of mass to do that type of damage.
I can imagine a loose nut or washer doing that, but a bit of welding spatter or slag?
Did you manage to find the culprit object in the resulting debris?
I hope your engine is OK.

[mytoy]

So where would a loose nut, bolt or washer enter the exhaust system and the turbo?

The only way this would happen would be if an internal part was passed by the piston and the exhaust valve. Highly unlikely unless it was from the intake side.

[billjam]

Originally Posted by mytoy

So where would a loose nut, bolt or washer enter the exhaust system and the turbo?

The only way this would happen would be if an internal part was passed by the piston and the exhaust valve. Highly unlikely unless it was from the intake side.

My first thoughts were maybe something like a nut accidentally dropped into the exhaust system during rebuild. Maybe it eventually found its way to the turbo after 25 miles and a bit of WOT
Still seems like a lot of damage for welding left-overs. The whole shaft is seriously bent. Whatever it was, I guess it's in the muffler now.

[RarlyL8]

I've seen slag the size of a garden pea. No doubt it would do that kind of damage, there is nowhere for it to go except through the turbine. Once an iterference occurs either the blades fold up or explode. Slag is damned hard stuff and does not come apart easily.
We've all seen the pictures of red hot headers on a dyno. I cringe every time I see that ...

[Miguel Antonett]

I agree with Brian and have seen slag the size of a 5mm nut that would definitely make that type of damage on the turbine; also agree with the concept of "accelerated fatigue cycling" on red hot headers...