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73.5 911t cis turbo

This project is NOT a high power small motor instead it’s an old school street turbo upgrade to the very desirable 73.5 911T 2.4L CIS motor. I’ve been wanting to do a mild turbo install on this engine for years. When I found a really nice black on black ‘73 (57K miles) but with ratty engine compartment I knew I had my subject.

The turbo is a used 993TT 3K found on eBay. Manifolding is total fabrication using mandrel bent tubing from Summit Racing. Turbine inlet and outlet flanges were designed and cut at a local welding shop for $30 each. I TIG welded the large flanges but gas torch welded the rest.

I fabricated the oil flanges and it gravity drains to the chain cover. So far total cost is less than $400.





Last edited by copbait73; 06-05-2009 at 05:28 PM..
Old 06-04-2009, 05:36 PM
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
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Interesting. Any plans to add an intercooler or some kind of meth/alcohol/etc. injection system to help with heat/detonation/etc.?
Old 06-04-2009, 06:12 PM
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Stock 2.4L C.R. is 8:1 and I don't intend runing high boost. However, if sometime down the road I move it to higher boost I'd add water/alcohol injection.
Old 06-04-2009, 06:33 PM
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Wow, cool I like it kinda like I did with my 2.7 but I got more than 400 dollars in mine. What kind of hp do you expect at what boost?
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Old 06-04-2009, 07:00 PM
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180HP with a noticeable bump in mid-range torque. Car has 915 with 7:31 P/R so gearing is favorable. W/A should place it over 200HP.
I'd like to package a muffler but it will be straight out the normal tailpipe location to start.
Old 06-05-2009, 05:57 AM
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Looks really good. The only thing I wonder about is the Warm Up Regulator in setups such as this. Since this was a Normally Aspirated engine, is there any danger of the WUR diaphragms rupturing when under boost? If I remember correctly the turbo WUR's were dual action for both vacuum and boost, correct?
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:21 AM
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Dave:

Really good question. When I first got the car I installed boost/vac and A/F gauges to get a baseline. At road load 75MPH and under full throttle it's rich, <11. Looking things over I noticed this WUR had a manifold pressure port but it was not hooked up, just vented to atmosphere.

I hooked it to manifold. The idle A/F was stabilized but there was no impact on the rich mid and high range condition. To start I'll use it as is. I suspect I'll need to add a check valve to prevent boosting the diaphram.

One other find on eBay was an old school Miller/Woods single injector system which I used years ago with really good results on a 3.0CIS twin turbo install. I intend to install this system and use it when enrichment is needed.

Last edited by copbait73; 06-05-2009 at 11:43 AM..
Old 06-05-2009, 06:50 AM
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Totally cool! Did you use the T cams or go SC? I'd think 240 HP is very attainable w/o an IC. I know of CIS 3L turbos making over 300HP w/o ICs; 100 HP/L isn't nuts at all. You just need to tune it super rich for WOT to keep the intake charge cool. I also thought static CR on these was 7.5...
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:37 AM
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Very interesting.

How about just sourcing a 930 WUR. Also I think the CIS Audi Turbo WUR has boost enrichment.

The 75-77 3.0 turbo WUR might be the best as it is vac loss triggered instead of boost triggered but migh blow your budget.
Old 06-05-2009, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenikh View Post
Totally cool! Did you use the T cams or go SC? I'd think 240 HP is very attainable w/o an IC. I know of CIS 3L turbos making over 300HP w/o ICs; 100 HP/L isn't nuts at all. You just need to tune it super rich for WOT to keep the intake charge cool. I also thought static CR on these was 7.5...
The 72 and early 73 engines were MFI and 7.5:1. This is the 73.5 motor with "NEW" CIS injection. The factory bumped them to 8:1.

High power output is not the project goal for this car. 73.5 911Ts have become highly desireable as the last of the longhoods street drivers so I decided to leave the engine proper bone stock. The turbo hardware can be removed and with the addition of a couple of components return it to stock.

I have a take off 930 CAC but it won't fit without a whaletail and modification of the CIS manifold so CAC is a nogo. I believe chemical cooling has it's applications and it may go on.

It will have very distinctive turbine sound and mid range pull to augment the Porsche circa 1973 experience this car has.

Last edited by copbait73; 06-05-2009 at 05:42 PM..
Old 06-05-2009, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911st View Post
Very interesting.

Also I think the CIS Audi Turbo WUR has boost enrichment.
Does Audi WUR have electric bi-metal warm up feature?
Old 06-05-2009, 03:35 PM
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Wow. Good thread.

I have a BAE turbo kit to install on my '77 CIS 2.7 with a 15k rebuilt and 8.5 CR.

What kind of AFR have people found to work well? I have tried a PLX system but it keeps failing and I want to go old school if I can find something reliable. EGT (exhuast gas temp) would be ideal but I don't know what kind of temps would be normal for this setup.

Anyone?

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this info could be good for all of us who want turbos.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:22 PM
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Wow..very very neat project. Evidently you know what you are doing as I spy another 911 motor in the background covered with snakes, so another turbo project?

I prefer all my intercooler piping in aluminum personally for weight, heat dissipation and overall appearance and general ease of working, plus I think aluminum is just one totally cool metal.

180hp in that car is going to be awesome. I have 180ish hp in a 2300lbs car and it moves along very nicely, I think we sometimes get caught up in the big numbers game ..too much internet, too much HP TV, too much Youtube etc etc.

Yasin
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:46 PM
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Just my experience and all are welcome to dive in.

EGT is old school, that's about all we had 35 years ago. EGT, pressure/vac, fuel pressure and plug readings was all I had to set up a pressurized twin Weber Carb 2.0L turbo installation back then. The problem is EGT can be impacted by many variables other than A/R and most probes are closed element so response is totally inadequate for a street car. Used them on aircraft, there they serve a useful purpose for mixture adjustment.

I like the new A/F ratio gages, they are a godsend for turbo tuning. Just get a new one.
Old 06-05-2009, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow&rusty View Post
Wow..very very neat project. Evidently you know what you are doing as I spy another 911 motor in the background covered with snakes, so another turbo project?

I prefer all my intercooler piping in aluminum personally for weight, heat dissipation and overall appearance and general ease of working, plus I think aluminum is just one totally cool metal.

180hp in that car is going to be awesome. I have 180ish hp in a 2300lbs car and it moves along very nicely, I think we sometimes get caught up in the big numbers game ..too much internet, too much HP TV, too much Youtube etc etc.

Yasin
The other motor is a 3.6 with twin 996 turbos.

Agree on intakes however I find AL too fussy for fabricating one-off special shapes needed to adapt to the existing boots. I call this work blacksmithing.

I keep forgetting manderel bent AL tubing is readily available now plus preformed silicone hoses, that wasn't always the case. Weight is a couple of pounds.

180HP is good, 200 is doable and that is a nice figure for a longhood.
Old 06-05-2009, 07:04 PM
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With todays gas I hear you do not want to go any leaner than about 11.5/1.

Factory turbos like the Evos w much more advance designs are often in the 10's for warranty reasons.
Old 06-05-2009, 08:04 PM
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Update on the project, pictures in a few days. Problems and delays. Two weeks ago I pieced together everything for a leak check. Wow, the factory CIS box was toast and the pop-off valve was so poorly installed it’s a wonder this engine idled at all. As luck would have it I found a 73.5 CIS intake on eBay and it was without a pop-off valve.

Problem number two, my fancy adaptation to the throttle valve boot looked like it would be unreliable. Given the fact I will have a 7th injector system I can’t risk any leaks so with some searching I found a silicon 90 degree 3” to 2” reducer for this location. All this dictated modification to the piping and it now looks like a scaled down BAE set-up. With all these changes it passed 15 PSI check.

I’m in the process of final disassembly, paint, check, seal. I checked cam timing, reset the left and now both are dead center of spec. Engine will probably fire without tailpipe. I will then fab in chassis an unmuffled 2.5" pipe exiting at the stock location. Factory W/G moves at 5.5PSI and I’ll probably start with that for all the initial systems testing.

One more update on the shop, I picked up a disassembled 3.0L 930 Turbo motor. It’s pretty much stock with the exceptions of the normal upgrades of tensioners, valve covers, K27 turbo and ROW exhaust. Plan is to keep it stock and find it an appropriate longhood for installation.

Last edited by copbait73; 06-22-2009 at 06:15 PM..
Old 06-22-2009, 05:09 PM
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:28 AM
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Old 06-27-2009, 04:22 PM
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Ratty two color engine compartment with remains of engine pad glue, foam and metal tabs are gone. Panel is painted body match gloss black.

Mounting plates for Miller/Woods supplemental fuel injection and Snow water/alcohol injection are completed. Both systems have trim pot adjustable delivery. Snow system has injection ON and reservoir LOW warning lights. There will also be a manual W/G control on the engine compartment fuse panel. There is very little real estate unused in this engine compartment.

Engine is undergoing final assembly of the turbo system components. I'm trying the spray tube restrictors on this engine which brings me to the subject of never having all the small AL washers needed to complete a Porsche engine prep.

The engine is looking smart, like a real TURBO motor, only everything is smaller to support 200HP. Too bad we weren't making small turbos like this KKK unit back in the early 70s. Porsche may have just gone small-bore street TURBO for a couple of years.

I'm holding for a shot in it's final ready to install form.


Last edited by copbait73; 06-30-2009 at 06:49 PM..
Old 06-30-2009, 06:44 PM
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