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The workmanship looks first rate. looks a heck of alot better than my B&B.
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Charles
79 930 #632
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:24 AM
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One question, how do you test all performance benefits of a turbo exhaust system? Cars drive on streets not rollers. Furthermore once you put a turbo and associated hardware on an engine you have a dynamic system. This is a problem unique to turbo engines. Add to this, raw HP measurement (data?) has never been an absolute predictor of increased performance or improved user satisfaction.
Related misconceptions:
Bigger brakes mean a car will stop faster.
Wider tires mean greater cornering speed.
Taking Enzyte means more action for middle aged guys.
Pelican site truth:
Exhaust system threads always get highly opinionated and often personal. Same thing happens on the N.A. motor threads.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:39 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Quote:
I wouldn't expect you to test against "all others". I'm asking which "one" so I can understand what market you're looking to support.
I don't think it makes a difference which one as they are all the same. I suspect that most are made by the same Asian company as well.
The core products are for CIS power level engines. We make kits for the high powered EFI fellows and build them to order. The configuration of the kits is chosen by the client. Sizing of the primary and secondary ID is critical to performance and discussed in length.

Quote:
if there is only going to be one comparison, one against the real competition would be more usable.
I agree to a point. My thoughts have always been that there is much more to performance than just early boost and a horse power bump. There is also value based performance in quality workmanship, materials, detail and end use longevity. My products have nothing in common with the short tube headers other than they bolt onto a 930.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-15-2010, 10:09 AM
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I'd like to buy headers in the next year, but I would only buy a set other than B&B if I saw overlaid comparison dyno charts. GHL or Fabspeed would work too, just if I don't see rarlyl8 headers power on top of the power of a short tube header, I can't take the risk.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:15 AM
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Lovely work but I have one question, why does the single turbo system have thick port flanges?

Is to give the system a bit more support for the single turbo which I am guessing will be mounted a lot further away from the ports than the twin turbo system?
Old 02-15-2010, 10:30 AM
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Ben mentioned these could be inboard or outboard in orientation...I assume the owner is going outboard to acommodate big turbos? Can't wait to see them on the car!
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:20 AM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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The custom headers used thick flanges provided by the client. Personal preference.

Completely understand that my standard 930 headers need to out-perform the short tube variety. It may be difficult to measure off boost torque on a dyno as copbait eluded to but I will do my best. Now if we can just get the weather to cooperate ...

Yes mirrored headers can orient inboard or outboard.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-15-2010, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr View Post
Lovely work but I have one question, why does the single turbo system have thick port flanges?

Is to give the system a bit more support for the single turbo which I am guessing will be mounted a lot further away from the ports than the twin turbo system?
In a word, heat. In two words, heat cycles. There is a point of diminishing returns, so thicker is not always better. At idle a typical 930 motor exhaust will be around 475 degrees F, but at WOT, it can range from 1500 to 1600 degrees depending on the tune. The flanges need to be fairly robust (resistance to warping) to avoid leaks.

Ideally, the turbo should be supported by something more than the header.
Old 02-15-2010, 03:49 PM
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I think what we all want to know is compared to the B&B style headers, do these make more power. Do they come on boost faster, do they make more power off idle before boost comes in.

All this can be measured on a dyno if care is taken.

Depending on the results, dose this mean a car with equal length over shorties will be faster on the street. Who knows.

More HP dose not always make for a faster car in the real world or on the track. However, responsive average HP usually dose.
Old 02-15-2010, 04:35 PM
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Torque and improved driveability is what I am after. No doubt in my mind I've got a gob more than I used to. A gob more power as well. Second gear never broke loose before with the furry it has now. I too am exited to see what she does at the dyno and to correlate what I see on the graph to what I am experiencing in the seat.

Don, that first set of custom headers belongs to a friend of yours ...
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-15-2010, 05:19 PM
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I'll soon be installing Brian's headers (with heat), muffler, Tial wastegate and Leask adjustable WUR all at the same time. This will be replacing the stock (Euro) system on my car. The engine is mostly stock with the exception of a K27-7200 and some fiddling of the ignition curve done by a previous wrench.

If someone can recommend a dyno in or around Toronto I'd be happy to post before and after results, as well as a comprehensive all round driveability report based on my butt dyno.
Old 02-16-2010, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yargk View Post
I'd like to buy headers in the next year, but I would only buy a set other than B&B if I saw overlaid comparison dyno charts. GHL or Fabspeed would work too, just if I don't see rarlyl8 headers power on top of the power of a short tube header, I can't take the risk.
GHL is out of business from what I understand.

IMO, the only short header that needs be tested is the B+B.
Old 02-16-2010, 06:17 AM
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Brian,

Did you do any base line runs with your old system?

Where are you seeing boost onset and full boost on the old v new?

I used to do runs from 1500rpm in second or third (G50/50) and noted my boost onset and full boost points.

Would be fun to know.

Thx.
Old 02-16-2010, 07:04 AM
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My engine configuration was chosen purposely to use as a baseline for product testing. Euro heat exchangers with typical mods. Target was 300WHP. Many dyno runs have been done testing my mufflers and fuel system modifications. Stock boost spring is full open (0.75bar) by 3000rpm with the K27-7200. Max torque was flat from 3700-5000rpm. Now? Much sooner.
The weather is still bad here with salt down and many roads closed this morning. May be an opportunity to dyno at the end of the week or on Saturday.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-16-2010, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post

Don, that first set of custom headers belongs to a friend of yours ...
Yep - he can't wait....
Old 02-16-2010, 06:10 PM
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I received the completed secondary assembly for the thick flange headers. I think he's gonna like 'em.


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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-16-2010, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel View Post
Talk is just talk without data.
LOL, give the man a break, can't wait to see the end result.
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:34 PM
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Nice wastegate circuits.
Old 02-16-2010, 09:00 PM
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Nice work Brian!!! Looks like the possibilities are becoming endless.
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Old 02-17-2010, 03:01 AM
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LOL, give the man a break, can't wait to see the end result.
Yeah, I agree with the sentiment that we don't know what we don't know but Brian gives us all some great products to talk about and clearly they do provide power gains and are built way better than B+Bs. It really is just the final step to dyno them. Everything else is decidedly in Brian's favor at this point!
Old 02-17-2010, 03:33 AM
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