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Personally I don't get why people give brian so much smack and comments like in this thread.

I bet I could post up pics of my new 935 headers and have people talk smack about those as well requiring data backup and charts etc.

Who cares what the use is for on these - long story short if you are in the market for headers, call Brian up and have him tell you what is best for your application - he's the resident guru on them and I wouldn't trust many other people (only 1 other person in fact) to deliver such a fine product and stand up service.

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Reaper | The Outlaw 930 Hotrod Gruppe Fünf Gruppen.com | The Baddest 934/5 Parts for the 911/930 D-Zug.us
Old 02-17-2010, 04:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
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Thank you all, I appreciate that. Do realize that all of the design tidbits I use are well published, which is one reason I'm not so concerned about showing performance increases as that has already been done by others. I just put it all together in one package.
The one-offs you see in this thread are a melding of my design with the wishes of the clients.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-17-2010, 05:13 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
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Folks that want a comparison between your headers and all of the other aftermarket headers on the market should go purchace yours and the ones that they want the comparison with and test them their self. I personaly think if I were manufacturing a custom aftermarket system for the general public I would want a test comparison ( for my own knowlage ) against a stock header to see what improvement I had gained if any. All or some of the aftermarket company quoate a HP. gain but show no proof to back up their claim VS. a stock header,but not a comparrison with all the other brands as that would open another can of worms. IMOP. Any one that knows anything about fabrication and tig welding can see you are offering a superior quality product. Some folks cain't afford a quality product but still want or need a aftermarket header and there are those out there for them to purchace.
Old 02-17-2010, 05:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
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Sexy!

Looks like it is set for a light weight Stainless Steel Tial turbo and WG's!

Some thoughts:

Wast Gates:

I like the WG circuit. Wonder if they would be better if they angled off the straight section of the pipe instead of in the elbow. No idea which might be better to keep turbulence at a minimum. I very much like how the WG's are set up to flow as well as the turbo. If it is for a GT35 based turbo they have relatively small hot sides that probably require and benefit from such a great WG set up.

I very much like the reduced volume of the WG circuit. This reduces the header volume to be pressurized. Volume is one of the enemy's of lag. I bet if one measured there internal volume with water and compared it to the typical shorty system , they would probably be pretty close.

The "Y":

The Tial SS turbine creates a bit of a special challenge and opportunity.

The current solution looks nice but it points the two secondary tubes at each other where they merge and there is no apparent tapper. It also looks like there might be an internal step up into the flange base but that could be the picture.

There is an awful lot that has to happen here at the Y.

The secondary tubes have to turn 90 deg and the internal volume has to reduce a significant 45% before it can enter the turbo (assuming two 2" secondary tubes in to one 2 1/8" turbo inlet flange).

If this area looked more like a merge collector with the turns made more fully earlier and in a way to create a more definable collector style tapper before the gasses inter the turbine, it might make for a more orderly transition and reduce turbulence potential at the "Y". Just like it has been done at the primary collectors.
--

Having said that, out of all the 930 systems I have ever seen, this is probably the best in so many ways.

Not an expert, just my two cents worth.

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Originally Posted by RarlyL8 View Post
Old 02-17-2010, 09:06 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper930 View Post
Personally I don't get why people give brian so much smack and comments like in this thread.

I bet I could post up pics of my new 935 headers and have people talk smack about those as well requiring data backup and charts etc.

Who cares what the use is for on these - long story short if you are in the market for headers, call Brian up and have him tell you what is best for your application - he's the resident guru on them and I wouldn't trust many other people (only 1 other person in fact) to deliver such a fine product and stand up service.

Totally agree. Not many guys providing an improved, quality product for a low volume car that went out of production 16 years ago.

Regarding the W/G plumbing they are per well established convention. Shallow angled and to the outside of a bend, excellent.
Old 02-17-2010, 09:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
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Please, please, lets not get personal, emotional, or defensive on Brian's behalf.

This is an open free technical form.

Brian gets tons of free advertising the more we all contribute, discuss, and fight!

In return we get to play internet expert no matter what our level of knowledge and share our thoughts and ideas.

In the end the sharing of every one's views probably had at least some positive impact on the current and future design and we all win with another quality product to choose from.

It also allows many to learn even if we do make a few mistakes along the journey.

Don't be a porcupine and lets all play well together.

If you are just that type of person, maybe check out the Corvette forms.

We all love these wonderful cars and should be on the same side.

Last edited by 911st; 02-17-2010 at 09:58 AM..
Old 02-17-2010, 09:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copbait73 View Post
...Regarding the W/G plumbing they are per well established convention. Shallow angled and to the outside of a bend, excellent.
I did not know this. Thanks!
Old 02-17-2010, 09:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #47 (permalink)
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Holy *****... my headers are done!!! Yippie!!!!

Holy cow, Brian... they are finally done! Kick ass!!! I will give you a call later tonight or tomorrow to finalize.

I wanted to address a few points others have brought up if I may.....

This whole header debackle started for me when I was rebuilding my engine and knew that headers were one of the parts that I needed to purchase. Since I was upgrading just about everything else, I felt this area needed to be addressed as well. I met DonE, and upon seeing his custom headers from Marco Manzie, I knew that was the route I wanted to take. I liked the fact that his headers were in 3 pieces: both sets of primaries, and attached via v-band clamps, the secondaries. If Don needed to, he could take off the secondaries along with the turbo and in a matter of minutes, have wonderful access to change cam timing, fix leaks, etc. I liked that. I also liked the fact that they had bigger primaries, and were equal length. ( Don will tell you that if he had to do it again, he probably would just go with "shorty" headers). He also told me that.... go with shorty headers. For the street, there is not much better for quick boost, and low lag. I agree with him, but still was drawn to the equal length. So, that is where I started my search....

I called Marco Manzie. I told him that I wanted an exact copy of the headers he made DonE, and that I had cash in hand ready to buy. IIRC, he quoted me a price of right around $2800 to $3000. To make a long story short, he drug his feet and would never commit to make or start on them. So Marco was out..... ( He is now putting more of his time into Supras and WRX's)

Next was Bob Holcome. Called him up and had to sit down when he told me his price... $5000 to $6000 for a set!!!! Holy grape ape, Batman!!!! Holcome is considered one of the best, but I knew I could have close to the same product for way cheaper..... still the search continues.

I have a friend of mine here in middle GA who has build himself a tiwn turbo AMC Rambler that has a dyno verified 2560 HP. He built the entire car by himself, and is very good at fabbing parts. I called him up and asked if this was something he could handle. He said "yea, no problem", but in the end, he too was also too busy with his own projects to comitt to building them.

About that time, Brian posted up here that he was thinking about making headers in addition to his mufflers he had been producing. I contacted Brian and told him of my dillema and what I wanted in a set of headers. Brian jumped at the opportunity and was one of the first people I had talked to in a long time that said, "yea, I can build em, and I will!"

I told Brian the criteria that I wanted and that I had a few special areas of concern. One of which being the V-band flange at the turbo instead of a T3 or T4. The next being larger primaries and secondaries. And third, the use of Burns SS collectors (this was before Brian had his own collectors made). On a side note, I know the Burns stuff is very high quality, but OMG it is EXPENSIVE!!!!

I knew Brian was not going to have these headers done in a short amount of time, as he was in the process of building a business. We just had our first child, and coupled with other things, the car was not my first priority. Brian needed to build jigs and fixtures for the stock size (1.5") primaries before getting to the bigger sizes. Plus, there was differences in my headers that would probably not be repeated on the other headers. All of that takes time. Brian had emailed me, called me, and generally kept touch with me during the process. There were a couple of hiccups, but nothing that could not be worked out, which we did.

I have done my research as far as custom made headers go. I was getting sick of either getting the run around, or paying what I thought was WAY too much.

I knew that a set of B&B, Schenel (sp), GHL, stock, or any other "bolt on" set would not work for me. My heads were opened up, so I had to use bigger primaries, as the stock size would not even bolt up anymore. ( plus, I would have to cut up a new set, just to make the turbo flange fit). After seeing the quality of the stuff that was out there, a custom set was the only way to go. These cars are not Hondas, Toyotas, or any other "rice" car. These are older cars that most parts companies would not even think about coming out with a new product... there is just not the demand for the time and money spend in R&D.

Since I had changed so much stuff on my engine, there was no sense in demanding a dyno test. I know that these will flow much better than a stock, or another after maket setup, and will also be better at combating "boost creep" with the dual WG circuits. Plus, with my engine, I can change the output just by changing a few settings in the ECU.

For the person reading this who has a STOCK CIS car, or a slightly modded one, then a dyno result might be good info for you, as it would show how these stack up against the stock setup, or one from some such as B&B. It would also be easier to accomplish, as the engine is closer to stock. I think in time, Brian will have the opportunity to do this.

So, the bottom line is what is a set of B&B's run right now? I bet Brian's setup is close in price, and would perfrom just as good, if not better ( dyno results would show this). Plus.... here is the kicker for me.... Why would you want to give any more of your money to a company such as B&B, who does not stand behind their product, and who could give a rat's ass who buys their product?? Not I...........

Yes, My car will be running the Tial GT-35r with the SS housing. With all the other improvments, this car should scream... not to mention how light the car is... Carbon Fiber is your friend!!
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Old 02-17-2010, 11:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #48 (permalink)
Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Yes Brad we are finally there. Please do call as we need to get the waste gates.

This build had many challenges and of course compromises. Overall these headers should complement and facilitate the engine's quest to build power and control boost quite nicely.

I do plan to dyno my headers and share the info at the first available opportunity. Time is very precious and the weather just won't give us a break.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-17-2010, 12:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #49 (permalink)
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I would love to get some headers from Brian, but only as soon as he gets his heaters finished. Of course I am concerned about my car going over the 400hp mark and my CIS blowing the engine out since I think I am pretty close already. Maybe a DYNO is in order...
Brian, let me know if you need a test subject, but by now you probably have the headers pretty much down.
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Old 02-17-2010, 01:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #50 (permalink)
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Brad, you need to bring that thing up for one of the monthly gatherings in Atlanta when you get it bolted together. I have yet to experience a high HP 930.
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Old 02-17-2010, 01:57 PM
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Crotchety Old Bastard
 
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Heat exchangers are at the fab shop.
Set-up and tooling will take a little time and then I have to test them.
We have done several production runs of headers and I have feedback from many clients. None have done any comparative dyno work but every one is happy with the gains and ease of installation. I am comfortable with the positive feedback and will offer the headers to Pelican when the heat exchangers are finished.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-17-2010, 02:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #52 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willtel View Post
Brad, you need to bring that thing up for one of the monthly gatherings in Atlanta when you get it bolted together. I have yet to experience a high HP 930.
Yah Brad.....

When's it going to be running? Now that the pipes are finally done, has this project moved up in priority yet? Maybe we can shoot for initial tuning by June 1? I too would like to experience a high HP 930
Old 02-17-2010, 06:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #53 (permalink)
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Very nice! Looking forward to hanging a set under my car.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:57 PM
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Heat exchangers have been very welcome in Florida this winter.
Old 02-17-2010, 08:45 PM
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A comment on some earlier statements...

Rare cars require support, and finding it is difficult. While Brian may get a lot of "free advertising" on a forum like this, it should be encourage and appreciated. If he doesn't produce toys for us, who will... and what will be the quality?

Sure, I'd love to see some before and after dyno figures vs. stock and/or a competitor. Once I see those figures (and some heater boxes), it will probably push me over the precipice. But I don't think any bashing about the lack of data should go on in the meantime.

Bottom line... you ain't going to see pictures of Billy Boat laying under his own 930 supported by a couple of jackstands and a floorjack in the pursuit of developing top-notch products for the 930. You will see that with Brian. Brian appears to be a grassroots car-geek like many of the rest of us. He has a personal vested interest in standing behind what he builds. That's worth a lot... and I can tell you that I was nothing but incredibly pleased with my exhaust system, from every aspect.
Old 02-18-2010, 10:22 AM
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OMG - Put a fork in this thread....
Old 02-18-2010, 05:28 PM
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Pelican rightfully gets the "free advertising" as they carry our products and allow us to squabble about them in an open forum. I appreciate the support and enjoy being part of the community.

I stopped by the dyno shop today and put in for a couple runs on Saturday. The weather is finally resembling something near normal so it should be a nice day.

Got the tooling estimate for the heat exchangers today as well, had to sit down and breath hard for a few minutes. I'm gonna be upside down on these for a long time ...
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-18-2010, 08:56 PM
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Saturday!

Oh Man, don't make us wait long before you post the results!
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:55 PM
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The wait is over.

The results left me absolutely speachless. I knew the car drove completely different than with the Euro J-pipe and that I had picked up some power but WOW. My butt dyno needs a re-calibration.

Results are posted on the original thread:

Latest Project - Headers

.
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RarlyL8 Motorsports / M&K Exhaust - 911/930 Exhaust Systems, Turbos, TiAL, CIS Mods/Rebuilds
'78 911SC Widebody, 930 engine, 915 Tranny, K27, SC Cams, RL8 Headers & GT3 Muffler. 350whp @ 0.75bar
Brian B. (256)536-9977 Service@MKExhaust Brian@RarlyL8
Old 02-20-2010, 11:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #60 (permalink)
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