OK - Exhaust manifolds are glowing

chesireIsugaree · 02-28-2010, 02:57 PM

Alright, This car is killing me. The smoke problem i've been having is NOT from a scavenge pump. I checked, all is well.

The ball is in the valve..... the turbo is not spewing oil into the intake system....BUT- alas... After a nice leisurely afternoon setting the ignition timing and preparing for my first uneventful NORMAL cruise in this 930, HUGE PLUMES OF SMOKE. This is what prompted me to check the scavenge system. NADA, it flows normal.

I ran it again this evening, and for the first time noticed GLOWING RED EXHAUST system right at the ports. SO- I know we have a fuel issue

Now, I have both pumps running, the filter is brand new, the car starts, idles and revs normally- EVEN THE PLUGS look FINE.

So what do I have, a fuel distributor issue. I know someone is going to tell me to check the pressure- which is fine- I will. But I should tell you guys the first few times I ran this car it was pumping fine rust silt from a bad gas tank.....And now i've resolved that. I wonder if the injectors are clogged.... is the only way to tell by removing them and watching the pattern??? Also, what about the accumulator- can IT cause a lean situation? Finally- GLOWING RED MANIFOLDS IS ALWAYS STARVING FOR FUEL RIGHT? I think I'll finally have this car on the road by spring! Yippee.... If you guys help me, I won't be broke when the time comes to hit the road. This is the 10th or so time I've tried getting the car to run solid after a major overhaul- now I'm feeling a bit scared that something could have been toasted by the lean condition. I hope not.

THANKS.

chesireIsugaree · 02-28-2010, 03:45 PM

After scanning these pages- I see two culprits. Plugged up gunky injectors (Found a great write up on cleaning them) or a massive air leak.... which i will throughly seek out if it exists. Anyone know the best way to boost test the system for air leaks????

THANKS,
Mason

jwasbury · 04:55 PM

Are you sure you have the ignition timing set properly? I believe that retarded timing can make the headers glow.

With a truly massive air leak, the car probably won't even run...definitely check fuel pressure and delivery too. The minimum spec for fuel delivery is 1170cc in 30 seconds.

9dreizig · 02-28-2010, 05:10 PM

also with an air leak it will probably go pig rich...

chesireIsugaree · 02-28-2010, 05:13 PM

Timing: I set it today for the first time. I have it at idle 900rpm -and the 10 mark on the pully at the timing notch on the case.

correct? It's running very smoothly.

I have to measure fuel delivery- where do you get a beaker/container that can measure CC?

pkracer21j · 02-28-2010, 05:34 PM

if your timing is too retarded it will run, and run well, but your headers will glow under normal driving. been there done that.

chesireIsugaree · 02-28-2010, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesireIsugaree

I have it at idle 900rpm -and the 10 mark on the pully at the timing notch on the case.

correct?

? is this correct? the mark that says 10- to the left of Z1

A930Rocket · 02-28-2010, 06:07 PM

Timing is retarded. BTDT too. Check the timing at idle and at 4k RPM.

Sounds like you are at the wrong timing mark. I just can't remember the correct one.

Try Z1.

chesireIsugaree · 06:17 PM

The manual says 10 deg retard at idle and 26 deg advance at 4k. the mark that says 10 to the left of Z1 is the 10 deg retard right? So if at idle (900 rpm or so) it should be retarded 10 deg? I have it set right there.

-EVEN SO- and I'm sure you will help me with the timing.....god forbid a 930 not run right!

I will be backflushing the injectors and ultrasonically cleaning them

jwasbury · 02-28-2010, 06:17 PM

There are different idle timing settings depending on which year car you have. On my '79 the idle timing is 10 degrees ATDC, which would be the 10 mark to the left of Z1, IIRC.

What year is your car?

chesireIsugaree · 02-28-2010, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

Timing is retarded. BTDT too. Check the timing at idle and at 4k RPM.

Sounds like you are at the wrong timing mark. I just can't remember the correct one.

Try Z1.

Z1 is TOP DEAD CENTER. Wouldn't that be ZERO retard.

mark houghton · 02-28-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesireIsugaree

Z1 is TOP DEAD CENTER. Wouldn't that be ZERO retard.

Yep, Z1 is top dead center. You are currently at 10 degrees retarded. Definitely check your timing at 4000 rpms as well. If you see substantially less than the 26 degrees advance, they you may be looking at a distrubutor advance problem. Too much retard...she'll run fine but hot as others have already noted. 10 degrees is a lot of retard at idle IMHO, but if that's what the manual says then that's where you should start. I never realized that any of the years required that much retard. Guess I should pull out my books and refresh my memory.

I'm puting my money on a timing issue. With CIS, air leaks will do the opposite of what a person would normally expect. The car will run crappy and extremely rich.

Oh....and check the control pressures!

drmatera · 02-28-2010, 08:05 PM

wow, 10* retarded at idle.. that just sounds wrong for any IC engine. My EFI 930 runs best at 24* advanced at idle.

chesireIsugaree · 03-01-2010, 03:08 AM

alright so it's timed wrong.... at least I have something to go on for now that's not a huge problem.

What should I set it at? I thought the manual said that- but it lists a whole bunch of different settings for the 7 or so offerings, ROW etc etc.

I'll still be cleaning the injectors.

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

Easy enough to check if timing is the problem; move it back and forth and see if/when the glow goes away.
Fuel can also cause a glow. You are already looking into that.
I take it you have aftermarket headers? Thin walled headers show color long before OEM.

chesireIsugaree · 03-01-2010, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwasbury

On my '79 the idle timing is 10 degrees ATDC, which would be the 10 mark to the left of Z1, IIRC.

What year is your car?

My car is a '79, and I set it to the 10 mark to the left of Z1- like he says above....

My manifolds are stock.

chesireIsugaree · 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

Easy enough to check if timing is the problem; move it back and forth and see if/when the glow goes away.
Fuel can also cause a glow. You are already looking into that.
I take it you have aftermarket headers? Thin walled headers show color long before OEM.

I never timed anything with a light before. I wanted to get it done so it's perfect.... this method is a good test- but I want it right... know what I mean?

The manual specifies 10 +or -2 ATDC @ 1000 rpm and 26 BTDC @ 4000 rpm...... That means the mark that says 10* to the left of Z1 should be matched with the notch on the case at idle...AND THE SENSOR FOR THE GUN NEEDS TO BE ON CYL 1 wire- which is the first cyl on the driver side. I didn't put the sensor on the 1 wire last night- maybe that's the mistake...

A930Rocket · 03-01-2010, 05:19 AM

That's a start on the correct plug wire. Are you using an advanced timing light (with a dial on the back)? If yes, you want to set it to zero when checking.

RarlyL8 · RarlyL8's Garage

Different years have different pully marks. The pully on my engine for example has a mark every 120* with no special designation for Z1.
I ignor all the marks, pull the cap and verify the rotor is at #1 when the engine is at TDC. You could be 180 out.

totle · totle's Garage

A friend of minehad kind of similar issue when he got his car.
I noticed that is was turning red by the heders when idling. Alos had som popping once in a while.

I checked the CO, and the engine was running very lean. Under 1 in CO. Adjusted to 3 and the car was running much better, and no problem with glowing