header install Q's - secret handshakes?

[krasuskyp]

Car's up in air, bumper's off, bits been soaking in PB blast in hot cycles for 2-3 weeks now. I should be ready.

Looking up, what's the best way to get the 13mm nuts off the flanges into the motor? I can get a boxed end on but then no way to swing it. Socket hits side of exchanger, even with a universal adapter. Ugh.

Surely the braintrust here can share some BTDT. I've seen a bent wrench someone made (GSF sells them on their site IIRC), but I've no way to make my own.

I've got a MAPP torch, but no OA btw.

For the turbo flange nuts - what's best way to access? I was hoping to remove the turbo / muffler as one and not having to fuss w/ more hardware, but looking in there I can't see how to get to those bits w/ the muffler there.

How about the heater downpipe on the driver side? I'm pulling the crap out of it and can't get it to pull down thru the tin (girliemon!). JPipe is very much in the way, but was hoping this would come out first to allow best access to #1 flange.

Re-read GSXRKen's RL8 header install thread from '09, I remembered it soon as I re-read it. Ugh. Hoping I'm not facing the same (snapped studs galore).

Hoping for best here, your insight is appreciated. Thanks guys, as always. Going to bed...

[philip j]

Too bad you couldn't get a tourch with a more concentrated flame. Know any plumbers? A presto lite/ B tank setup is perfect. Nice pencil like flame. Does your car still have the barrel nuts? If so heat these up and pound a larger size allen key in them. Also a hammer and small cold chisel. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER. cheers Philip

[icemann427]

Hi Paulie,

Since your car is an 87' like mine, don't you have the Allen bolt studs that hold your stock exhaust manifold on? Based upon what you said, though, it sounds as if someone has replaced them. No matter what, it isn't easy taking those nuts/studs off, and it is timely. If you are lacking an abundant supply of tools, like me, you will have to be creative in figuring it out. When I took mine off, I had to sometimes hammer my Allen key by hitting one end of a breaker bar; grip it with a pair of vice-grips to increase the leverage; and probably a couple other ways I can't think of at the moment. Maybe someone who has a treasure trove of tools can illuminate you better than I.

I'm pretty sure your new headers are the same ones I have, and as such, you will have to replace your solid metal oil return tube with a flexible SS line (I think I put mine on after I installed the headers, but you will have to figure that out by trial and error...Unless someone with a better memory than mine can chime in) before you can put on the headers.

Good luck, buddy

[krasuskyp]

Thanks Geoff - yes, I've got barrel nuts on the 3 that can be reached via the thru-ports in the heater boxes. The other 3 are 13mm regular nuts.

Anyone, on those specifically?

Yes, got my new 'back date' oil lines from TurboKraft yesterday along w/ injector plugs and gaskets.

Really could use some guidance here...

[philip j]

It's really not that hard once you get at it. You really can't hurt anything. Go for it! Start with a easy one, get it as hot as you can, red/white, You'll feel the bond break between the nut/stud. Philip

[jwasbury]

Paul,

I use 3 or 4 different 13mm wrenches to get to those nuts. Its crucial to have the right tools.

the money tools in my arsenal for heat exchanger removal are:
stubby flex head ratcheting combo wrench
deep offset wrench
1/4" drive swivel socket

[krasuskyp]

Thanks Jake - that's helpful!

I opted to skip heading to my bud's house / lift as I had very likely visions of getting it apart and not getting home before dawn.

Started the process here on stands instead. My bud (Mr. Martini Targa) came by tonight w/ his O/A torch and we bent a 13mm wrench into an "s" shape. Got the first barrel nut and 13mm hex off no prob. Number 2, the barrel snapped and the 13mm didn't fit tight on the nut at ALL - basically spun. We cut it off w/ the torch but it fubar'd the threads a bit. Got barrel #3 off, and #3 hex was same as #2 so we cut it w/ same thread result.

Cut J-pipe nuts off... gotta say, that was liberating! 8-) BEGONE insipid pipe of crappy laginess!

So, J-pipe, LH manifold, exhaust, and turbo are off. Packing it in for night and will endeavor the right side manifold some other eve this week.

Off to buy some hardware in the meantime, and prob some of your suggested tools Jake for the remaining side.

Least we turned the corner - feels GOOD, despite all the kicks in the nutes (fookin clamp on the oil drip tank was seized so removed by taking the bracket the clamp attached to off... 1/32nd of a turn at a time, having to flip the wrench open/box each time. Coupla other mockeries, as well - why not?

Learning a ton, which is always great.

Found out my lower chain covers have nominal leaks on each side, as well as the scavenge pump area. Will prob search then start a thread on remedy "while I'm in there" (famous last werdz!), as well as prob adj valves and do valve cover gaskets, instead of rushing along. Why not.

Thanks again all - I'd never even consider thinking of trying any of this w/o youses instigators! 8-) Brian gave me some further phone time earlier this eve too, whattapal...

Time to sleepy, if bedroom door isn't locked - d'oh! Tough to be thrown into "The Dog House"... when you LIVE THERE, I say...

[Ken911]

Make sure when you put it back together to use some good thread lubricant so that when the headers crack and need replaced. Or you bend the crap out of them on speed bumps. You can get it apart easy next time. I use felpro/locktite N-7000

[RarlyL8]

1/4" drive swivel socket

That's the tool I was trying to describe yesterday when the oldtimers kicked in.
Keep at it you're almost there!

[David]

I owned zero swivel sockets when I bought the 930. Now I have a several sizes

[911nut]

A 13 mm socket with integral hooke joint and a small diameter 13 mm socket on a long extension were the weapons of choice for removing my sstock heat exchangers. I had to heat the old nuts cherry red and immediately (and I do mean immediately) slap the socket on and turn it off as fast as possible. Worked like a charm.
For installing the 993 heat exchangers, I have to use a 13 mm offset box end wrench to reach the r/h middle flange outside and inside nuts.

[Miguel Antonett]

Hey Paul, what did you decide to do with the oil lines?

[krasuskyp]

Good point Ken - will do.

Thanks David / Paul!

Harbor Freight only had 3/8" drive swivel sockets, will try that tomorrow and see. Didn't have stubby articulated gear wrenches, only full size. The 13mm offset wrench we made is fine, it's more an issue that the nuts have 'shrank' and the box end is just too big.

We'll see how the other 3 go this week.

Oh, anecdotally... was thrilled/surprised to find my 50k mi 3LDZ displaying *zero* shaft play! Not lateral or fore/aft. Go figure...

[gsxrken]

Hey Paul- sounds like you are well on your way! Like many have said, I have amassed several screwball metric tools that I never needed until I acquired the 930.

Push on- it's worth it! Your reference to my tribulations made me go back and read my original post... I am glad it's behind me and I do remember hating my car for a bit, but time does heal all wounds. Other than a failed decel valve where my backfiring on let-off got to be TOO much, it really hasn't jerked me around since then and the RL8 setup will not disappoint.

[bkreigsr]

I was able to slip a shortened 13mm 1/4" drive between the exchanger and the nut, then plug in the 1/4" extension up through the access holes in the exchanger.
Like Brian says, the 1/4" drive socket set is your friend here.
Bill K.

[krasuskyp]

Thanks Ken / Bill!

My 3/8" wobble socket hits the side of the piping 'somewhat' but might work on 2 if not all 3 of those nuts. Will see tonight. If not, we'll torch them too - I ended up ordering 12 new studs and nuts / barrel nuts anyways after seeing the condition of the studs that I did NOT break. Something told me (cough Pete) they'd likely break when I go to install everything - no thanks. The threads are disintegrated where they were covered by the flanges - eeek.

Best way to remove the old studs?

I can double-nut the ones that the lead threads remain good on, but the ones that were torched we may have to weld a nut on to? My bud wasn't sure his welder would be strong enough to get a good weld on there to hold. Thoughts? Or, other suggested stud removal tips?

Diving back in tonight - accumulator's off (new one arrives today woot - only took me 4yrs to fix d'oh), valve covers are off 'n shined up, new motor mounts are come today too, fuel (system) pressure is up to 7.0 after shimming... just need to adj the valves, get that mani off, and get the headers on.

"Just"... 8-/...

Getting there!

[lucittm]

I would be remiss if I did not add my oft stated recommendation: Part with some dear cash at ARP (800-826-3045) for their stainless fasteners and you will never have this problem again. If the PO had done it you might be smiling now...

Ask for (1) 400-8005 and (1) 400-8015, these are the twelve 1.25 x 57mm exhaust header (thick flange) stud, washer, nut kits. $135
Ask for (2) 771-1004, these are the eight 1.25 x 35mm exhaust piping bolts. $73.50 (two spares)
Ask for (8) 400-8310, these are the M8 12 pt. exhaust pipe flange nuts. $32

Mark

[krasuskyp]

Thanks Mark - I went budget and got our hosts items already, all new studs 'n nuts.

Got righty off in no time this evening - literally minutes. Heated 1st 13mm and it promptly busted. But the other 5 came off w/o issue. Used a 13mm 1/4" drive u-jointed socket on a 3/8" expander to optimize the torque. Worked great on the 2 that didn't break. Think I didn't get the tool on the first nut tonight quick enough after removing the torch and it snapped, ah well.

So, 2 busted studs (one each of 13mm / barrel, one per side) and two 13mm nuts cut off (on barrel nut bust side). Total screw-job removals: 4 of 12... not 'too' bad (SO FAR), especially for 'moi'.

Of course the last of the 6 air injectors decided to strip itself OUT of the threads as I removed it. I don't get it, the other 5 came out like butter (I even got the whole spider out really easy and fully in-tact).

The threads in the head are not too fubar'd but will have to address to clean them up.

Hey, where to score hi-temp Loctite? NAPA gave me what they said was hi-temp, I got home and read it: 300*. Idiots. And idiot me for being in a hurry and trusting them and not reading the damn label. Or can I use JB Weld? Have the 6 port plugs, but need to ensure they stay IN.

Sooooooooooo... best way to remove the studs??? Here's what the look like - you can see why I got all new ones:



Will endeavor that likely Mon / Tue next week, then start bolting it back together. Valve adj tomorrow. Time to go make friends w/ What's Her Face for the time being, before the locks are changed...

[krasuskyp]

...anyone on the studs???

They're currently being shot w/ PB Blast daily.

Double nut?

Weld a nut?

Other?

Bueller?

[rsrfan]

Double nut, weld a nut or buy a stud extractor. Welding a nut often works because the heat travels through the stud and loosens the installed loctite