Building my own Exhaust System

[klefroid]

Hi guy's,

Next week we will build our own Exhaust system.
I'm will post some progress.
The pipes will be bend with a 3D machine (vid on youtube)
wire 2012: WAFIOS stellt neu entwickelte Maschinen vor - YouTube!
And the exhaust have to look like this.
We also going to use software to help us getting the most power out of an original engine. To be continue.
Btw: we will use rvs 316... then also a dyno test will follow.

[JBL930]

Lovely work!!!

[JFairman]

Those are MODE headers with heat exchangers and I think you can still buy them new. Expensive but nothing else even comes close and it seems alot easier than trying to copy them and hoping they work and last.

Get in touch with Turbokraft for more information on them.

[klefroid]

Originally Posted by JFairman

Those are MODE headers with heat exchangers and I think you can still buy them new. Expensive but nothing else even comes close and it seems alot easier than trying to copy them and hoping they work and last.

Get in touch with Turbokraft for more information on them.

Don't worry it will not be a copy. It has to be perfect. I'm not the expert that's my buddy. but we are using a Tube Expert Software and Romer 3D used in F1.

[Tt surgeon]

looks good
do you use the stock oil lines?

[Falk930]

How is this connected with the Wafios vid??
I only see some very small tubes bended there....

+ do not think that this is a easy "next week we build a perfect exhaust system" job.
I run a tube bending company, with all the machines, CAD software, measuring systems
and acknowledgement in house.
I have one of Brians headers here, truly I could copy it, but for what?
The time+ money I would spend is much more then they cost.

But, for sure wie like to see your work, please keep us updated!

Falk

[Kraftday]

Fun under taking, looking forward to seeing progress. The heat exchangers in photograph were designed by Bob at Mode Inc and if you called with all of your project details and wired him 4K, I'm sure he would love to build you a set.

Here is some photos I took of Rob's exhaust, one cool Canadian customer. As you can see, they put out plenty of heat. These were originally purposed for bi-wastegate.



Those are all double slip joints so they don't leak. Even so if you plan encapsulate any joints on the exhaust, having a CO (carbon monoxide) alarm in the cockpit would be smart. That or headers with a new Wabsto gas heater perhaps.

This is the ultimate bender we should all go in on!

[quattrorunner]

Omg!!!!

[RarlyL8]

Mine are similar but in 321 stainless and about 1/2 the price.
Building your own is rewarding though. Don't know your skill level but do be sure to back purge less they end up with slag inside.
The exchangers I came up with bolt onto the primary pipes so no exposure to slip joints that could leak and fume the cabin.

[quattrorunner]

Brian, your headers look great!

[Hirevtuner]

Originally Posted by klefroid

Hi guy's,

Next week we will build our own Exhaust system.
I'm will post some progress.
The pipes will be bend with a 3D machine (vid on youtube)
wire 2012: WAFIOS stellt neu entwickelte Maschinen vor - YouTube!
And the exhaust have to look like this.
We also going to use software to help us getting the most power out of an original engine. To be continue.
Btw: we will use rvs 316... then also a dyno test will follow.

Cool that u are trying to make some better headers. So far all I have seen is pics of well build headers. If u can make some yourself that are better I am interested.
Show us a pic of something u have made. Just saying. I am open to something new that can make power.

[Falk930]

Kraftday:
The Nissin bender is a nice machine, unfortunately this technolgy
will not allow small bending radius which is required for these type of headers.
I guess the primarys need something like 40mm tube diameter with CLR60mm
maximum.
Brian might know the CLR he is using better.

Falk

[slow&rusty]

Originally Posted by quattrorunner

Brian, your headers look great!

+1 Agreed!

[copbait73]

Go ahead and create your own design. I highly support your effort. You will learn a lot, and save money. Yes, they may look similar to other designs. This happens when you are on the right track. For some reason the group becomes extremely opinionated regarding exhaust systems.
The point is these will be your creation not something you wrote a check for. There is a vast difference.
Please continue to share.

[dwoods]

Originally Posted by copbait73

Go ahead and create your own design. I highly support your effort. You will learn a lot, and save money. Yes, they may look similar to other designs. This happens when you are on the right track. For some reason the group becomes extremely opinionated regarding exhaust systems.
The point is these will be your creation not something you wrote a check for. There is a vast difference.
Please continue to share.

I agree......will they be better? There seem to be some basic rules that all follow -which seem to produce similar designs. Some of the compromise seems to be in manufacturability....so there might be a relatively insignificant gain to be had there. That being said, I plan to build my own just for the satisfaction. Oh yeah, I might save some money too...probably not when I consider the time involved.

[totle]

Great looking headers. Keep posting.
Nice to do your own craftsmanship. Really rewarding and you learn a lot in the process

[Falk930]

Sorry, maybe my previous posts sound a little negativ,
I should care better for this!
But building good headers is by far not as easy as it seems.

To explain my motivation writing on this topic:
I ran a tube bending company + the 930 is my passion.
I love to build parts for the 930 by myself!

As I have close to perfect resources to build my own headers
the question is for sure: why not?
In my case the answer is quite easy: I do not want to spend the time on this.

I only want to recommend to be carefull starting a headers project.
Especially if you plan to build just one set.

First there should be a todo/tohave list.
Here just some suggestions for this:
mandrel tube bender, bending tools for exact this application,
laser parts supplyer, tube supplyer, close to perfect welder,
you need a good jig, different saws, tube end former,
and so much more.... not asking for CAD and tube measuring system at this step...

Another question is for sure what means "my own headers"?
1: Buying some bends and weld the header in the garage?
This will probably not result in something close to the two brands shown here.
2: Finding the perfect shop and tell them to build the headers close
to Brians or MOD headers?
3: Having all the required machinery, acknowledgement and time,
do the bends and weldings by yourself or buddy?

Next point seems money.
I am sure, building just one set from 0 to 100 will cost much more
then Brians set. Do not forget all the try and error pieces, wrong cuts,
mistaken measures.
Just one sample: Buying only 1 turbo flange + 6 outlet flanges from laser cutter
is not economic.

Fitment:
Thats one of the major problems.
This funny product has fitment issues for sure!
The 6 primarys need to fit perfect with small tolerances.
The turbo flange needs the same.
If the turbo flange is out of tolerances, many problems follow:
The exhaust will not fit well, turbo inlet/outlet pipes get problems etc.
Be prepared for surprises after you have welded everything.

...better I stop here, have lots more things to be solved in mind.

Probably I am not enough passionated with this, but I learned
that sometimes its just better to buy a good existing product instead
of manufacturing a nice copy.

*just one more comment:
Brian suggested backpurging, what is correct for sure.
But that is standard when you work with this material.
If you start thinking about the standards already, you
have a long way to go.

Falk

[klefroid]

Originally Posted by Falk930

Sorry, maybe my previous posts sound a little negativ,
I should care better for this!
But building good headers is by far not as easy as it seems.

To explain my motivation writing on this topic:
I ran a tube bending company + the 930 is my passion.
I love to build parts for the 930 by myself!

As I have close to perfect resources to build my own headers
the question is for sure: why not?
In my case the answer is quite easy: I do not want to spend the time on this.

I only want to recommend to be carefull starting a headers project.
Especially if you plan to build just one set.

First there should be a todo/tohave list.
Here just some suggestions for this:
mandrel tube bender, bending tools for exact this application,
laser parts supplyer, tube supplyer, close to perfect welder,
you need a good jig, different saws, tube end former,
and so much more.... not asking for CAD and tube measuring system at this step...

Another question is for sure what means "my own headers"?
1: Buying some bends and weld the header in the garage?
This will probably not result in something close to the two brands shown here.
2: Finding the perfect shop and tell them to build the headers close
to Brians or MOD headers?
3: Having all the required machinery, acknowledgement and time,
do the bends and weldings by yourself or buddy?

Next point seems money.
I am sure, building just one set from 0 to 100 will cost much more
then Brians set. Do not forget all the try and error pieces, wrong cuts,
mistaken measures.
Just one sample: Buying only 1 turbo flange + 6 outlet flanges from laser cutter
is not economic.

Fitment:
Thats one of the major problems.
This funny product has fitment issues for sure!
The 6 primarys need to fit perfect with small tolerances.
The turbo flange needs the same.
If the turbo flange is out of tolerances, many problems follow:
The exhaust will not fit well, turbo inlet/outlet pipes get problems etc.
Be prepared for surprises after you have welded everything.

...better I stop here, have lots more things to be solved in mind.

Probably I am not enough passionated with this, but I learned
that sometimes its just better to buy a good existing product instead
of manufacturing a nice copy.

*just one more comment:
Brian suggested backpurging, what is correct for sure.
But that is standard when you work with this material.
If you start thinking about the standards already, you
have a long way to go.

Falk

It's never easy but if you never try you never know ;-)
To measure the pipes we are using the romer 3d so it helps to prevent to much waste.
ROMER Tube Inspection Solution - YouTube

[Falk930]

As mentioned above, I dont think its easy to build these headers.

But I am sure we all will be happy to see your progress,
Keep us informed please!

*regarding the Romer 3d measuring arm I like to explain
why it is not that much helpfull for this product, maybe someone here is interested...

These vector based systems require straights between the bends.
Watching above promotion video carefully, its visible that only
the straights are used to get the measurments.
Quite simple, the system is calculating the centerline
+ using these centerline crossing points to build the whole tube.
You only need to add the CLR + tube diameter.

If you look carefully on above header pictures, especially the primarys
You see, that the straights are very short or not there.
That why you can not measure this header with these kind of 3d measuring system.

Above headers are mostly welded together from simple 2d bends,
No need to use the 3d Romer or similar to verify one angle.


Falk

[klefroid]

We will start a bit later so probably 1 of august. then I will send some pics of the progress.
It's not that I (not me but my guy) want to build more of these stuff but it's not the first one. It is for a turbo but other 911 have bin done in the past. Lets just see what happens ;-)
I'm sure it's going to be good but probably not as good as some others here :-)
At least we try...
About the romer he is using also this one in the vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMJ0ifNbW8A&feature=player_embedded
Sorry for my bad englisch ...