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E-85 sippin drunk
 
turbobrat930's Avatar
 
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knock sensor location..Ideas??

My cylinders are not drilled for the stock 3.2L knock sensor bracket (JB Racing cylinders)... small oversight on my part...

Where would be a good place to mount said sensor? I was thinking about lengthening one of the intake stubs on cyl#4 (it can only be cyl#4, as the shape of the runners of the 3.2L intake prevent any other stud on the intake from being used)

Keep in mind that the engine is mounted into the car, and taking it out, or disassembling said engine, is NOT an option....

Any ideas/ comments??
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 03-29-2014, 03:51 PM
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3.2's don't have knock sensors, I believe only the 993 had. This has been talked about at length, but for some reason, it slips my memory where most prefer.
Old 03-29-2014, 04:12 PM
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Yea.... I remembered after posting that said it was only a 3.6 liter that had them.

there is also a longer stud that is one of the three studs and bolts the engine throttle bell crank or quadrant to the engine block and I was thinking about using that one. that stud is located at the base of cylinder number 3 on the crankcase itself
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 03-29-2014, 04:18 PM
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Try using SEARCH on this forum. Like Tippy said, lots of discussion.

One spot I know of is underneath the left side of the throttle bellcrank plate. Obviously, that will require some work to get at, but you are not going to find any suitable spot that won't require a little work to get at it.
GL

JR
Old 03-29-2014, 04:19 PM
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I had a single sensor on the breather cover before converting to twin 993 bridges, seemed to work well.
Old 03-29-2014, 09:33 PM
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I was able to attach the sensor to the side of Cyl #2. Drilled and tapped a hole on the side of the intake. There is enough meat on there to get a good 10 to 12 threads tapped... Tightened up perfectly, and now the knock sensor is right at the head.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 03-31-2014, 09:33 AM
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Great location. I really like the knock sensor on the head. Would be great to have one on both sides of the engine. How much did you have to clearance the cooling shroud to clear the sensor?

I have installed them at the base of the throttle plate next to cyl#3. Just shorten the aluminum spacer the same amount as the thickness of the knock sensor.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
Great location. I really like the knock sensor on the head. Would be great to have one on both sides of the engine. How much did you have to clearance the cooling shroud to clear the sensor?

Thanks! I did not have to do any clearancing of the air shroud. It fit with no problems....
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 03-31-2014, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnovak View Post
I really like the knock sensor on the head.
Exactly where Bosch say not to mount it.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuggy View Post
Exactly where Bosch say not to mount it.
I have never hear that... However, I will be able to tell via the laptop if it is working or not...

If it is not working, I will regroup, and pick a different location....
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 03-31-2014, 11:29 AM
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Mine is under the throttle linkage bracket:

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Old 03-31-2014, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrat930 View Post
I have never hear that... However, I will be able to tell via the laptop if it is working or not...

If it is not working, I will regroup, and pick a different location....
It'll work. But you'll also pick up top-end noise from the valve gear - and if there were any cylnder base and/or head gaskets, that'd tend to insulate a sensor from the other bank. So then you'd need two sensors. And on a water cooled motor, you don't want to be on the outside of the water jacket.

You want to be bolted directly to the block. Apparently.

Yes I know the factory used cylinder bridges on the later motors. Who the heck knows why?

I used the M8 studs directly under the shroud - although at least a couple of folks have had sucess with using the throttle linkage mountings - which are certainly easier to get to.

Jake Raby uses a bell-housing bracket on a Type IV, distance is not that critical. The denser the medium the further sound travels.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:51 AM
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Was reading that the frequency is so different than any other sound, that having false triggers were really not a problem.

Was thinking about this a little, and I agree since the valvetrain on our engines make "clacking" sounds while detonation makes more of a "tinking" sound, which is a higher pitched frequency.

I'm going breather cover and see what happens with fingers crossed.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:14 PM
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Sorry to hijack.......

turbobrat930, just saw your sig. My gawd, what kind of power are you making with that combo? Jealous.....
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Cory - '87 C3.2 (3.4, stock 3.2 heads, cams, intake, with 75mm Mustang TB) Guards/Blk - turbos new to old 1). Borg Warner S366 (66mm comp/73mm turb/0.91 T4 divided ~1.4 bar), 2). Holset HX40 8-blade (58mm/"P" trim 0.84 T4 divided 1.4 bar), 1/4 mile 12.02 @ 129 MPH (street tires), 3). Turbonetics 60-1 HiFi (60mm/"P" trim 0.81 A/R T4 open 1.2 bar), 431whp - MegaSquirt II/EDIS ignition/80lb inj
Old 04-01-2014, 06:17 PM
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E-85 sippin drunk
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Was reading that the frequency is so different than any other sound, that having false triggers were really not a problem.

Was thinking about this a little, and I agree since the valvetrain on our engines make "clacking" sounds while detonation makes more of a "tinking" sound, which is a higher pitched frequency.

I'm going breather cover and see what happens with fingers crossed.
I agree... I mean you have the cam chains at one end.. scavange pump at the other... valvetrain on each side... But, i think you are right, it is listening for a different frequency. also, I think it is searching (the ecu is, in my case) for an anomaly... IE: you have say a 140 value at 2,000 RPM, then at 4,000 RPM, you have 220. Then all of the sudden at 4K, you have 298.... the ECU will say hey, something is not right. I am sure that it is also tuned to pick up a certain range of frequency...

If it is not working where I put it, it will not take too long to change it...
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 04-01-2014, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
Sorry to hijack.......

turbobrat930, just saw your sig. My gawd, what kind of power are you making with that combo? Jealous.....
LOL... thanks!

I am shooting for 750 at the flywheel on E-85. But I think I may need to step up to a bigger turbo in order to hit that... we shall see... I just installed dual 044 fuel pumps, and changed all the fuel stuff over to teflon SS braided line.. and we are running ID1000 injectors.. so could get close to 120lbs on the injectors with just a slight bump in fuel pressure...

I am planning on a write up about finishing the project in a couple weeks when she runs for the first time.....
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 04-01-2014, 07:50 PM
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Wowzer, I think you you might be there. E85 is some serious gas that allows a lot more power than a turbo is rated at.

Anxiously awaiting the write up.
Old 04-01-2014, 07:56 PM
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E-85 sippin drunk
 
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Quote:
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Wowzer, I think you you might be there. E85 is some serious gas that allows a lot more power than a turbo is rated at.

Anxiously awaiting the write up.
Yea, I have a local friend here who drag races... He won the Dynomax challenge a few years back in Vegas with his twin turbo AMC rambler... That engine at its final config was north of 2,700HP.... on E-85

That fuel is awesome for our cars... even more so because we are air cooled.

I would like to see what it will do, but the final number is not really whats important to me. I will scale it back a bit, for longevitys sake... The car is mostly carbon fiber and only weighs 2100lbs... so very light... and very fast!!!
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Brad...930 gt-1 racecar, increased displacement to 3.6L, JB racing Cylinders, JE 8 to1 pistons, stroked crank, Carrillo rods, extrudehoned 3.2L intake, full bay Bell I/C, GT-2 EVO cams, Rarly8 headers, GTX-35RS turbo, twin plug, P&P heads, Link G4 EFi system, G-50/50 with LTD slip and oil squirters/oil cooler, zork tube, full race coilover system, with carbon fiber body, full cage, E-85 sippin drunk
Old 04-01-2014, 08:05 PM
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That's litrebike acceleration hp/weight ratios! GL on the endeavor.
Old 04-01-2014, 08:16 PM
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I put mine here...

I didn't have the 993 bridge, and wasn't going to take everything apart. I haven't used them or set them up yet (no calibration). [img]
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:40 PM
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