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Kartoffelkopf
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Yup, totally agree John - secretly, I was hoping we'd end up going on an engine dyno rig.
Really great read, btw (can't believe I've not read this before now), and will dive into the sub-topics over the weekend. Indeed, Chris and I have exchanged a few emails on procedures 
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01-30-2015, 02:13 AM
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Kartoffelkopf
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So, another quick update.
It's been a manic week, all over the country on business, so no time to get into the garage, but while standing on train platforms, having a quick coffee, etc, I've made a couple of calls to progress stuff. First off, I spoke with a chap called Dave @ DTW Engines, who's dyno facility and expertise we'll be using to map the engine ---> DTW Engines - About Us Very useful and pleasant conversation; I ran down the checklist of things we need, and needless to say, he's been there/seen it/got the t-shirt when it comes to air-cooled flat-6's - immensely reassuring. In fact one such engine was for Neil Bainbridge, a very well respected Porsche guy here in the UK (met him once, really nice guy, and talented in other things aside from building 911's...suggest a Google...) with a twin turbo ca.800hp monster. So, oil feeds, intercooler cooling, fuelling, and not least the engine mount jig itself, are all there. All he needs me to do is to complete a few jobs on the engine, and we can look to schedule a date:
I've also just found a water jet cutting company about 3miles up the road from me, who seem very helpful. Will drop in there at some point and show them my drawings for the traction control timing wheels - they'll translate from scribble > CAD, no problem, and can apparently turn these jobs around in a few days. Finally, I sourced a set of refurbished Cup 1 wheels. I don't know where they've all gone over the years, it didn't seem 2 minutes ago that all 964 owners were swapping them for aftermarket rims, but anyway, seeing as I'm going for the original stock look (muh-hah-hah), these seem like the right option, despite them not being the lightest or widest...plus I need to buy a new set of (sticky) 17" tyres. So....I will now be selling the 18" 3-piece wheels that came with the car, plus a brand new (still in the box, never been mounted on the car) set of Veloce 18" Speedline replicas with Pirelli tyres. If anyone feels inclined to treat themselves to an early Easter present, shoot me a PM I'll put an official posting in the For Sale section in the next couple of weeks.
Last edited by Spenny_b; 01-30-2015 at 02:42 PM.. |
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01-30-2015, 02:33 AM
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Kartoffelkopf
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Just a minor update this evening; the powder coating guys have had to overcome a couple of major technical difficulties this week, but very kindly juggled the current jobs to squeeze my items in with another batch of satin black items.
Rear tinware can now be bolted in place, along with the Nimbus heat shield, the exhaust back pressure sensor plumbing, the exhaust silencer and a final alignment of the compressor outlet > intercooler input pipe.  Also now finished (that also needed incinerating, part of the delay) are the rear bumper fittings --->  The long folded section you can see was slightly twisted/distorted before it went over. Really taken a hit from the weather and temperature cycling, no original coating left. I was in two minds to just buy a new one, but another part that's just stupid £££'s from Porsche. Nothing lost by giving it a go with a refurb, and as usual, the guys have done a stelar job, just needs a little straightening (not worth doing beforehand, as the incinerator could've re-twisted it). I quickly nipped out over lunch to the water jetting guys a few miles away. Really nice chaps, immediately got to creating the CAD drawings from my Powerpoint drawings, 15mins later we had the files ready to go, costed and agreed that they'll be ready by Tuesday lunchtime! Don't think much is going to happen this weekend, apart from growing our family....with fish. |
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01-30-2015, 02:38 PM
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Kartoffelkopf
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Something that's been on my shopping list is to look into buying a plumbed-in fire extinguisher system; in fact, while I'm at it, look into buying 2 systems, one for the Lotus as well.
I guess some folk will think this is way overkill for a road car....but....the very reason I was able to buy the Carrera inlet manifold that's now on this engine was because a pal of mine contacted me via this build thread, saying he had one. It was no longer needed since the car which it was due to be fitted to, had gone up in flames. In fact, he documented the whole sorry affair over in the 911 Technical forum 3-4yrs ago. Long story short, he thinks it was a power steering leak in the engine bay that caused the fire whilst driving down the motorway, and had to sit and watch his pride and joy burn to the ground at the side of the road. Not good. I was also witness to a TVR burning to a cinder about 10yrs ago....if only.... So, it was on my to-do list, but I was too hasty in fitting the wiring loom into the car a few months ago - I should've held off, and installed a system at the same time, running the hoses through to the engine bay. Of course, now I need to remove the interior again to extract the wiring for the engine dyno.....game on. I don't need anything super flash, and ideally want to keep it simple with a mechanical system, but I think the only place where it makes sense to house the bottle is at the front of the passenger footwell. I want it to look stock, not GT3 RS, so the further forward towards the bulkhead I can get it, the better. If I can make a black anodised ally footrest to hide it, then great. An electrically activated system is a lot narrower, with the release valve on top of the bottle, not at one end, but needs some frigging around with installing the electrics. I'm initially thinking of opting for this Lifeline system, if anyone has any experience of this, then please do give me a shout, either on here or via PM. The product details say that this will discharge 2 litres to the engine bay, and 2 litres to the passenger compartment......with our engines at the back and the electrical fuseboard/relays/central electronics complex in the frunk (...right next to the fuel cell...), does it make sense to plumb the frunk and engine bay, leaving the passenger compartment? This may sound mad, but remember this is not a track car, so really I'm protecting against fluid leaks or excessive heat, rather than the door-banging antics of track racing. Of course, I'm not running any hoses through the cabin either. I can always look to buy a Brey-Krause seat mounted handheld extinguisher if need-be. Or...forget plumbing the frunk, run both lines and all 4 litres to the engine bay, 1 line to the top half, 1 to the underside? Is the passenger footwell the best place to locate the bottle? The frunk doesn't appear too good an option, as the spare wheel is there, plus hi-fi gear. And I want it to remain a usable space. Is the Lifeline 2000 a good choice of extiguisher system? Any thoughts appreciated guys. Last edited by Spenny_b; 01-31-2015 at 03:01 PM.. |
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01-31-2015, 02:52 PM
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,569
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For 806 (my old '71E race car) I used an AFFF (aqueous Film Forming Foam) bottle that was about 2.25 liters, pressurized to nine bar or so, with an electric squib to trigger it, with 9v battery in the firing box mounted on the dash. There is one outlet from the bottle-- one uses "wye" connections and a large diameter tube to start, then narrowing down to smaller tubes after the "wye."
Liquids will take the path of least resistance: as such, they will distribute first to wherever the largest diameter tubing goes (higher flow rate) and the shortest run. I used three dischargers-- one giant one on ME, mounted in the dash where the ignition switch would be if Porsche didn't put them on the other side-- another one mounted on a shock tower in the engine compartment with a 90 degree angle iron bracket to position the nozzle over the motor; and the last one mounted in the cowl up front, next to the windshield wiper motor, aimed at the fuel cell. The largest tubing went to the discharger in the cockpit and the smaller tubes fore and aft. The system is triggered by a momentary-on SPST; they give you two, one for the cabin (with a plastic ring to keep you from inadvertently firing it) and another one for the marshals, to be mounted on the outside of the car. (I conveniently left that uninstalled; I could just see a punter at a PCA Club Race pressing it if I had left the firing box armed. . .  )Anyway, if it were me I WOULD get the GTRS bits, nothing cooler than having some bright red bottle over the shift coupler cover that says "ACHTUNG-- GLORIA FEUERLOESCHER" or some such like that, just to let 'em know that this is a serious performance machine. The big advantage of these systems is (1) the capacity-- you have a lot more AFFF than those tiny bottles that one typically sees affixed to the A-pillar of an econobox with flatulent exhaust and little else; and (2) if you are upside down, strapped into your racing seat and harness, and burning, you can have the presence of mind to hit the trigger and foam the entire car. And while you're at it, cut off the electrical system. All that said, you might do well to carry a big five pound CO2 up front, mounted securely, and another small one in the car itself. I cannot underestimate the importance of reducing missile hazard in a collision. It is far more likely that you will use these devices to assist somebody other than yourself, so having them free could make sense. . . Signed, Smokey Bear  Discharger barely visible, it's the round red nozzle on the dash. Firing box mounted on glove box lid. 
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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen ‘96 993 Carrera 2 Polarsilber '81 R65 Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13) Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02) Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04) Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20) Last edited by 304065; 01-31-2015 at 05:20 PM.. |
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01-31-2015, 05:13 PM
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Kartoffelkopf
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Thanks for the info John, appreciate it. Comforting to know that there are plastic rings supplied for the firing switches - that was a fear of mine with the electrical systems, whereas the mechanical setups have a disabling pin you can lock the handles with.
I'm not sure what hosing the Lifeline systems come with, so I will investigate the diameters and fittings further. Definitely sticking with a stock look (if I can) for this car, especially after sourcing and fitting a stock interior - but with the Lotus I'm happy to have the extinguisher on show - little choice really, there's barely anything in there to hide it!Your first pic doesn't load up - was that showing the engine bay mountings? |
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02-01-2015, 04:24 PM
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Kartoffelkopf
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Another engine build.....
This weekend, another engine was built. From part collecting, right through to tall block, water pump, distributor.....
     Yup, started building it during the day, could't keep Lucy away from it when ready to go to bed, bless her...she loved seeing how the crankshaft worked, assembling the pistons, building each cam lobe onto the camshaft, timing the cam to the crank, seeing the valves operate. She really got the hang of precisely cutting the parts from the tree and then carefully filing the part smooth. The only thing left is to assemble the motor onto the flywheel and put the manifolds on. Another engine nerd joins our ranks! ....well....it IS the engine building forum
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02-02-2015, 11:08 AM
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Kartoffelkopf
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Back to the metal engine....
Dropped the wastegate exhausts and flanges over to Pete the welder @ lunchtime ready for him to weld; don't think he could quite believe that it wasn't an urgent "need it tomorrow" job. This evening I then got around to sticking the gold heat reflective tape onto the underside of the rear tinware. Expensive stuff, but I have to say, it's really nice to use. Quite forgiving and fairly malleable. Very pleased with how this came out, although I confess to thinking that I had more on the roll than there actually was, so a lot of measuring and dummy lay-ups to make sure I got as much of the really hot area done. This will all be sitting behind the heat shields I made a few weeks ago, so a little OTT, but better that than have any heat related issues.   Next job is to have a look at the intake pipework for the turbo, which may need some welding. I'd better also get an air filter ordered.... The Cup1 wheels arrived this morning - really pleased with these, fully refurbished and look just like new. The inners are re-done using the flat light grey that the Factory used, rather than the easy option a lot of refinishers take of using the same silver for the whole wheel. Tyres are the next thing to start doing some investigating on; the trade-off between something like a Toyo R888 which I use on the Lotus - fantastic grip in the summer (and to be fair, dry winter roads as well); I've never tried any heroics on the odd occasion I've been caught out in heavy rain, but it's *not the best suited tyre* for that job. Alternatively, I always got on well with the Michelin Pilot Sport 2's when I had the GT3, but with only a 17x9J rim and a 255 section tyre (which according to Bill Verburg, works the best on that wheel in his experience), I need every bit of traction I can muster. Way more hp and torque than the GT3 was pushing through those PS2's. Yokohama do what looks to be a half-way option in their street tyre range, perhaps that's a good candidate.....hmmmm...... |
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02-02-2015, 12:08 PM
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Kartoffelkopf
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A quick heads-up guys - I've finally decided to part with all the extraneous kit that has been removed from the engine, this car is never going to go back as a 320hp stock car, the mileage prevents it from being one of those daft garage queen never driven examples, and frankly I've run out of space and it's driving me nuts. Please see my post in the Classified section and give me a shout if it's of interest.
S |
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02-03-2015, 07:19 AM
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Registered
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I've been watching your project with interest, wow amazing job! A few years back I converted my 964 T to EFI with the help of Neil Bainbridge and sourcing parts from Chris (Turbokraft). The best upgrade ever! With a standard motor with ARP rod bolts and headstuds, N/A cam, motec and GT35 with billet compressor wheel, 0.8bar 400bhp, 1.0 bar 450bhp, 1.2 bar 498bhp on the engine Dyno. A little more fettling and the HTA billet wheel 1.2 bar 508bhp on the rolling road almost no lag.
Neil @ BS motorsport has a great Dyno exclusively setup for air cooled Porsche motors http://youtu.be/4mZaVTwjVjc BS Motorsport |
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02-07-2015, 01:10 PM
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Kartoffelkopf
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Wow, they're great numbers for a pretty stock conversion; I take it those hp numbers are FWHP? I'll be chuffed with numbers that are near that, or even proportional to those with the additional mods (reworked heads, Carrera inlet, TK intercooler)...fingers crossed. Yes, I did go along to Neils place a good 4-5yrs ago, nice guy, and was in the middle of installing his ex-Hyundai WRC dyno cell; a very impressive looking facility...in fact, Neil did post on this thread in the early days, not sure if he's still watching. To be honest, I'm handing over the mapping responsibility to my pal Steve @ SBD, so although will be driving the engine up there, and helping with the setting up of it, I'm kind of entrusting Steve with his choice of "drivers" of the dyno; from what I can make out from another mate, I *think* this cell that we're planning on using is an ex F1 setup - I'd surmise that being in Harlow, it perhaps has something to do with Judd. Last edited by Spenny_b; 02-07-2015 at 02:43 PM.. |
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02-07-2015, 02:41 PM
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Kartoffelkopf
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Evening folks, time for another update.
Not got anything done during the week - busy at work, so it's had to wait until the weekend....but I do feel like I've made up for lost time. I now have the trigger wheels in my possession, freshly cut by the guys at Kent Waterjet. Brilliant job, very accommodating as well....despite my, er, "cock-up" (stop sniggering Chris!) with the rear wheel drawings. It's so embarrassing, I'm not even going to go there. Anyway, a new set now made and very nice they are too. Damn sight better that drilling and filing for a couple of days. For those that don't know, water jet cutting is a lot more economical than laser cutting, but the slight downside is that with thicker materials, there is a tendency for the edges to be slightly tapered. Some of this can be dialled-out with constant setting up of the jets, but to a certain extent it's just one of those things. Paul did show me some really thick pieces that they've cut (for a Chinese nuclear plant, no less) that are made from some 1.5" thick steel, and I have to say, it's mighty impressive....the wonder of 3000bar pressure! The rear wheels are made form 4mm steel, so there was a *tiny* bit of tapering on the OD, and as the sensors are mounted radially, with the sweetspot of the HE sensor only being about 3mm wide, I wanted to make sure that the sensor is getting a 100% clean signal. So, time to mount them onto the lathe and tickle the OD's. An added benefit was that I could absolutely tune the OD to the right size so that I have 1.5mm clearance to the HE sensor without needing a waffer-thin shim on the non LSD side. A quick Scotchbrite clean and they're ready for plating.  With the fronts, I got 2 designs made using 1.2mm material, as we'll be reading the teeth axially —>  ...one that has a smaller OD - it's smaller than the ID of the ABS teeth (see previous photos), so it's completely hidden from "view" from the ABS sensor, but it means that the M3 holes that will need countersinking are very close to the outer edge. Option 2 has a larger OD with more material for mounting, but to prevent there being any possibility of the ABS sensor seeing this TC wheel, I also got some plastic discs made that will sit in between the ABS and TC wheels, shielding the ABS sensor from the TC wheel. Last night and today, it was time to focus on the jobs that need doing in preparation for the dyno….
So, a very productive day. Tomorrows jobs are to remove the 4 x ignition amplifiers from the inner wing, and the capacitor that plugs into the alternator charging circuit. I want to also try out my new valve clearance setting tool - it should all be spot-on, but a good opportunity to play with the new toy I collected in Boston last year. Heat shields to the underside of the rear tinware will go on, and the exhaust back pressure (EBP) pipework fixed into position. The engine stand has now been broken down and stored…another big chunk of metal out of the way, another (slightly) momentous occasion. I’m quite pleased with myself, have got my list of things to take up to the dyno - start it early and add to it when the odd brainwave pops up….far too efficient for me. I did manage to sneak a 15/20mins chat with a very helpful guy at ITG, the guys who make air filters. I'll detail further in a later post, suffice to say that they're completely geared-up for making me a custom filter should I need to go that route. I think it may have to be, in order to fit down the LH side, clear the sensor bracket but still maintain the surface area needed to support this build. It may even be an oval filter, narrow and tall, probably 9-10" long, with a 3" outlet. Anyway, details on that later, once I've mocked something up and anticipated where the engine bay edge are. A quick couple of pics of the new Cup1’s —> Rear:   Front:  In terms of tyres, I think I’ve decided to go with some Yokohama AD08R’s - they seem to sit somewhere inbetween a durable road Michelin PS2 and track focussed Toyo R888. Although I love the R888’s on the Lotus, the chances of having to drive in standing water are higher in this car - it’s going to be going on European jaunts, more-so than the Exige would, and it’s a road car so the R888’s are going to be a noisier choice. Pirelli Trofeo’s would’ve been nice, but no sizes available that I need in 17”. The Yoko’s were recommended to me as being better than expected in heavy rain (thanks Frank!), so we’ll give them a go. Last edited by Spenny_b; 02-07-2015 at 03:58 PM.. |
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02-07-2015, 03:55 PM
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Hi Spencer ! I am very impressed by your work made on the engine, it is raving but I adore! You wanted to see what looked like my roof in carbon, I have a photo of him not put on the car. You used as thermal protection of the zircoflex gold?
I wish you good luck for the continuation, you are not any more very far from the end your project, finally, more end than the beginning! 
Last edited by Pat RUFBTR; 02-08-2015 at 04:58 AM.. |
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02-08-2015, 04:54 AM
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Kartoffelkopf
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Hey Pat! Thank-you! How you doing? Excellent roof, I like it very much. Do you know what the weight difference is between this and the original (presumably with a sunroof) steel roof?
Yes, finally, the end is in sight.....well....kind-of. The end of the engine build itself, then I need to finish some chassis jobs and bolt things back together.....and then...it's time to refurbish all the suspension. Phase 2. That part shouldn't be too long though, perhaps a few months. I have some of the parts needed already, and was chatting with TK Chris the other day, the plan is not to go too crazy - I'm not looking for it to be a turbocharged RS, but do want it to be a little sharper than stock, perhaps 15-20% tighter all round; maybe increased ARB diameters with adjustability, Bilstein HD's (which I already have), new stock top mounts, then either some Superflex bushes or some of the Elephant Racing items, maybe some 935 style adjustable rear plates. All the aluminium parts will be vapour blasted, and I'll probably invest in a new set of H&R Red's (although I already have a set, they're looking very secondhand, and perhaps may have sagged a little over the years, no idea how old they are, no receipt in the paperwork) |
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02-08-2015, 08:56 AM
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Registered
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Now I also added a completely integrated(joined) arch, it is almost invisible thus I have a little less weight gain but also more rigidity.  
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02-08-2015, 09:19 AM
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Registered
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 I know Spencer that we project are very long, that we need a lot of patience! But it is brilliant to make our toys, to return them even more beautiful and effective. The passion!!!
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02-08-2015, 09:24 AM
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Kartoffelkopf
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That's a really nice, neat job of integrating a "half cage" into the chassis Pat....very Ruf-like!
Agree, you need patience by the lorry-load sometimes. I started off this project aiming a lot lower (more simple) but wanted to get it done in time for the next summer season....3.5yrs later, with a scope that's gone far further than planned, and a budget that was last considered about 2.5yrs ago, and I really am looking forward to getting my car drivable again. It's been a good exercise in learning patience and relaxing into it, and therefore enjoying it more with less frustration. When is your car going to be back on the road? In time for Le Mans?
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02-08-2015, 01:05 PM
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Registered
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By the way, having read a test I also think that you make a good choice for tires Yokohama A048R, they are more available in many size, they will be my next tires. Thank you for this good advice!
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02-09-2015, 12:32 AM
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Kartoffelkopf
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02-09-2015, 03:19 AM
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Registered
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A small photo of my new driving compartment...  Good evening!
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02-09-2015, 09:33 AM
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| Tags |
| 964 c4/c2/turbo , efi conversion , life racing , syvecs , turbokraft |
1993 Porsche 911 (964) Turbo 3.3
2006 Lotus Exige Cup 240 (#45 of 50)
BMW M2 Competition
BMW R1250 GS Rallye HP
Ducati 748R
1991 Porsche 964 Turbo
930
