If you don't read any other post this year...PLEASE read this one!

[Seeker]

Originally posted by John Lyon
Meaning that the injury was lower on the spine?

Yes.

So for injuries lower on the spine (below the neck), are we talking back protectors or is it extreme motion that causes these injuries as well?

Yes. Back protectors that protect against crushing blows to vertebrae or lateral displacement and injury resulting from excessive range of motion.

Having said that, I'm surprised that the use of neck braces has yet to become more widespread in those types of competitions.



Bruno
Montreal, Canada
http://pages.videotron.com/mcrides

BRP Can-Am Spyder First Look: Adventure Tourer?
:

[ErricZ]

I feel that one of these would have prevented many of the problems that I experience as a result of crashing my S. I rolled over while on the bike, my chin met my chest -- painfully hard -- and now I have several pinched nerves and deformed vertibrae up top. I believe 200% that this injury would not have occured had I owned and was wearing this device. Let's see, it was probably 80-90% extension ... according to their data (backed up by BMW, but who cares about what they have to say WRT engineering safety devices) ... that would have been reduced to 50% extension. Sounds to me like the angle would have been no worse than nodding off in my computer chair.

The detractors moan on about biomedical engineers and not enough data. Sorry, but when you've had or known people with injuries, you tend to wear different gear. Back protector and leatt seem to be the way to save your spine. If you get whipped into a guard rail, you'd want something stopping "rag doll physics" -- all the somethings you could.

(Not an investor ... yet.)

[Seeker]

Originally posted by ErricZ
I rolled over while on the bike, my chin met my chest -- painfully hard -- and now I have several pinched nerves and deformed vertibrae up top.

I feel for you as I know how painful a pinched nerve at the neck feels like. Do you have lingering pain and if so, where?

Curious about your . Vertebrae is bone. It breaks, it crushes. How is it deformed?

Let's see, it was probably 80-90% extension ... according to their data ... that would have been reduced to 50% extension.

I'm not sure I follow what extension you're referring to. If it refers to your neck injury and you say you hit your chest, that would be neck flexion not extension.

Sorry, but when you've had or known people with injuries, you tend to wear different gear.

True enough.

Back protector and leatt seem to be the way to save your spine.

True in that your neck is technically considered part of your spine. But if you are referring to what most people mean when referring to spine ie below the shoulders, then the Leatt targets the neck.

Just so we don't go rushing off in a panic creating a run, if you look at statistics on the types of injuries caused by motorcycle accidents on the road, true spinal cord damage at the neck is very rare. Of course it doesn't mean that it can't happen.

If you get whipped into a guard rail, you'd want something stopping "rag doll physics" -- all the somethings you could.

Since you are using this example, if you get whipped into a guard rail, you typically have other concerns that are more likely to happen and prevent against.


Cheers!

Bruno
Montreal, Canada
http://pages.videotron.com/mcrides

BRP Can-Am Spyder First Look: Adventure Tourer?
:

[ErricZ]

Yes, flexion ... their website had it wrong and I incorrectly corrected myself.

[ErricZ]

I guess it wasn't too bad of a crush but there is a lip on the edge of the vert ... if I could scan in my x-ray, I would, Be ... Bruno.

[Seeker]

Originally posted by ErricZ
Yes, flexion ... their website had it wrong and I incorrectly corrected myself.

Their website had it wrong? Whose website?




Bruno
Montreal, Canada
http://pages.videotron.com/mcrides

BRP Can-Am Spyder First Look: Adventure Tourer?
:

[John Lyon]

Originally posted by Seeker
Yes. Back protectors that protect against crushing blows to vertebrae or lateral displacement and injury resulting from excessive range of motion.:

I'm glad we're talking about this as I never considered lateral displacement issues. This would mean that the typical foam pad inserted inside a jacket would not be sufficient as it only protects against the impact. You need one with a hard plastic backing that restrics movement of the back as well. (Edit: I guess this isn't true even for the "reinforced" back protectors. The instructions for my Dainese Back Space G2 protector says it limits transmitted force due to impact, but does not protect against traumas caused by twisting or extreme movements.)

Even if the statistics for neck injuries on the street are low, my neck is already vulnerable so I'm getting one of these. I have pinched nerves (and ruptured discs) in my neck from an acrobatic skiing accident. All I have to do is move the wrong way and it can flare up. If this restricts head movement (without being uncomfortable), I need it.

[AndrewA]

From the MAIDS report - "The 921 on-scene, in-depth accident investigations have provided a large volume of data related to the general characteristics of PTW accidents; including accident causation and rider and passenger injury information. The outcome of these investigations can be considered in the identification, development and introduction of countermeasures."

http://maids.acembike.org/ (You must register on the site to view the report).

[AndrewA]

From above mentioned MAIDS Study:

Figure 9.3: Summary of the distribution of PTW rider injuries greater than AIS=1 (number in parenthesis indicates total number of reported injuries for that region, total number of injuries to the PTW rider = 3417)

[Seeker]

Originally posted by AndrewA
From the MAIDS report -

Yes. These were some of the stats I was referring to. Point to consider: As anyone in risk management knows, it's important to not only factor in the probability of an occurence, but also the damage resulting from its occurence. So even though injuries to lower extremities are more probable, a coma-inducing injury to the head is of higher gravity.

One injury that is rarely talked about for road riding but is often fatal is a chest injury. The type of injury that killed astronaut Pete (Chuck) Conrad while he was riding his motorcycle. Also the type of injury that killed a Cycle Canada staff member a couple of years back. Once you suffer this injury, your survival rate in the ER is less than 10%.

For road riding, I would put chest protection ahead of neck protection. Expecially when dealing with steel barriers.

But motocross track riding is different.

of note: of all the highsides occuring at roadrace tracks around the country each year, how many result in a fractured neck?


Bruno
Montreal, Canada
http://pages.videotron.com/mcrides

BRP Can-Am Spyder First Look: Adventure Tourer?
:

[Steve Carlton]

There's an ADVrider thread running on the Leatt:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173305

[repoe3]

wow, they recommend replacement every 3 years.

repoe3

[bradzdotcom]

repoe~
yep, that's about as far as i'm willing to go with a helmet too. three years, to me, is a long time. makes me nervous to even go that far!

(just got a new helmet last week...old one is retired after 2 years).

hey john~
i'm in the middle of putting up the new '07 spidi protection gear. thought you might be intersted.

defender: http://www.motonation.com/defenderback_chest.htm

back warrior: http://www.motonation.com/backwarrior.htm

air back: http://www.motonation.com/airback.htm

pages aren't done yet (BUY button doesn't work), but you can call and order them now: 877-789-4140.

[Flatbutt1]

I want Batman's body armor to ride in.

[John Lyon]

Originally posted by bradzdotcom
hey john~
i'm in the middle of putting up the new '07 spidi protection gear. thought you might be intersted.

Looks nice, Brad. I particularly like the word "svelte."

I do need to upgrade some of my older pads that are foam only (no reinforcing). Can these fit inside the back pocket of the jacket or are they meant to be worn inside the jacket only?

[bradzdotcom]

i dunno. not sure which protective gear you're referring to, plus i forgett which spidi jacket you have (a textile maybe?).

US distributor, motonation is at 877-789-4940. punch in "0".
ask for jojo. he should know.

[markjenn]

Originally posted by bradzdotcom
yep, that's about as far as i'm willing to go with a helmet too. three years, to me, is a long time. makes me nervous to even go that far!

(just got a new helmet last week...old one is retired after 2 years).

My $0.02 on this is that the five-year replacment interval for helmets is probably ultra-conservative. I've never seen any hard data WHATSOEVER to justify this interval, let alone one that is shorter. I think storage and usage conditions are much more important than a fixed calendar interval. I've looked at EPS liners in five-year old helmets and notwithstanding crash damage or throwing them over mirror stalks, they generally look just like new. If the helmet still fits snugly, and the shell has not been compromised, it will do exactly the same job as a new one.

I know you can take the attitude that one should never skimp on safety gear, but obviously you have to draw the line somewhere. If you're throwing darts at the wall without any supporting data, why not 1 year? Why not six-months? And certainly you have to take into account the type of usage - racing (whether you do it as you're supposed to on the track or as you're not supposed to on the street) certainly justifies being more conservative.

- Mark

[repoe3]

Originally posted by markjenn
My $0.02 on this is that the five-year replacment interval for helmets is probably ultra-conservative. I've never seen any hard data WHATSOEVER to justify this interval, let alone one that is shorter. I think storage and usage conditions are much more important than a fixed calendar interval. I've looked at EPS liners in five-year old helmets and notwithstanding crash damage or throwing them over mirror stalks, they generally look just like new. If the helmet still fits snugly, and the shell has not been compromised, it will do exactly the same job as a new one.

I know you can take the attitude that one should never skimp on safety gear, but obviously you have to draw the line somewhere. If you're throwing darts at the wall without any supporting data, why not 1 year? Why not six-months? And certainly you have to take into account the type of usage - racing (whether you do it as you're supposed to on the track or as you're not supposed to on the street) certainly justifies being more conservative.

- Mark

and that pretty much sums up the useful life of anything...use and care. i have a few helmets and rotate their use as wearing them nearly everyday for 8+ months can make them quite aromatic. however, with removable liners for cleaning, not to mention one of the techniques for cleaning a helmet is complete submersion in water, the shell is not harmed.

the 5 year rule thrown out for helmets made sense to me in the past as technology was moving at a more rapid pace. now its more about styling than innovative safety features, in a helmet. i had one of my original arai helmets that was over 5 years old and i felt just as safe in it as i did a new one.

unless a safety device is "tested," meaning involved in a crash, it should had a greater service life.

all that said, i like having a new lid for riding as frequently as funds permit. and with arai lifting their online sales ban and the available helmets out there that are, well don't want to start the whole snell battle again, lets just say, its easier to have new gear more often.

repoe3

[repoe3]

on a side note, i read an article the other day that had a great quote...

"sheep have but two speeds, graze and stampede"

repoe3

[Highlander179]

Originally posted by bradzdotcom
report from san diego supercross race:

I was dissappointed to see Stewart NOT wearing one. With his crash history and the history of his number "259", I would think that he would be pushing more for this, not just the Honda guys that are close with Fonzi.

Looks like a "smart" piece of gear, thanks for posting this Brad.