If you don't read any other post this year...PLEASE read this one!

[Dan Alexander]

If you find the stats that Andrew published believable ... and why wouldn't you ..... and take what Seeker has to offer then a chest protector and really heavy duty boots and maybe even knee braces are probably more important.

[bradzdotcom]

james stewart did practice with one during the week previous to the san diego event, but elected not to wear it that night.
ironically, he did "auger in" during the main event.

at this level of racing, the guys generally take even smaller "baby steps" than beginning riders. testing takes up much of the week,and you can spend the whole day experimenting between three settings on one suspension clicker, or adjusting tire pressure on just one tire.

markjenn~when i was racing, we changed out helmets after only a few weeks. granted we rode 5-6 days a week, but even dropping a helmet accidentally on the pavement/asphalt was enough to pitch it....then again, we didn't pay for 'em either...just had to wait for the fancy paint jobs to be completed.

while there may be no hard data, there's psychological data. i'm not comfortable wearing a helmet for the manufacturer's recommended lifespan. other guys are. now that i have to buy 'em, i wear them way longer than i used to, but i get to a point where i start getting uncomfortable about it. it makes me nervous. personal choice.

[acidburn]

So how far do we need to go before we just acknowledge that you can get seariously hurt riding motorcycles, higher speeds, riskier riding styles = higher percentage of chances for searious injuries.
The final and absolute protection from injuries incurred from motorcycle injuries is to not ride, kinda like not getting killed from sky diving from a chute failure by not jumping out of planes.
This device appears to be very dirt racer oriented, a great addition to anyones safety gear no doubt.
For me, for now, ill continue to let common sense and better judgment prevail.
For the track, now that i am thinking about seariously.
When it gets to leg braces, neck braces, arm braces, body braces etc, for everyday riding on the street, its time to get rid of these murdercycle things and build my 675hp Cobra.
Sandles, shorts, beachts smoking lucky strikes, could be worse.
When we are too concerned about riding to ride its time to move on.
At least for me.

[Dan Alexander]

Accidents sure are a part of our sport. Right now I'm talking with some friends who raced a lot and some still do on occasion and who I learned to ride quickly from. They are spending way more time riding dirt now and they are trying to get me into it. They say it's a blast but they do seem to get hurt more often. Collar bones and broken ankles and such. Nothing like falling off at 140mph but still needs time off work to heal etc. I'm wondering if I should get more involved.

[bradzdotcom]

true, acid.
i think that a lot of what a rider chooses to wear as protective gear is directly connected to the type of riding that person does.
i like riding in tight, twisty canyons.
when i make a big mistake, i have to deal with trees, cliffs, giant rocks, etc...basically i go from street riding to off-road crashing in a heartbeat. so i dress appropriately with body armor and now a neck brace.
if i lived in florida and rode the interstate, it wouldn't be the same.

i think that the track is thousands of times safer than the twisty canyons. when you fall at the track it's "oh, crap". when you fall in the canyons it's "oh no!".
so even though i ride on the asphalt, most of the crashes i've been involved with (personally and witnessed) have ended up off-road, in the trees, bushes, rocks, cliffs, etc...because of the environment that i like to ride in.

when i go paragliding, it's off a cliff at the beach. we're required to wear a helmet in case we crash into the cliff. that's not unusual. but because we fly over the ocean, we're also required to carry a knife, in case we stuff ourselves in the water and have to cut off the paraglider (which quickly becomes an anchor).

so when i go street riding, i dress for off-road crashing, which for me calls for the leatt neck brace as part of the "kit". if i dress for a close encounter with a tree, giant rock etc...then hopefully i'm also dressed appropriately for the Toyota, SUV or guard rail.

[John Lyon]

Originally posted by Dan Alexander
If you find the stats that Andrew published believable ... and why wouldn't you ..... and take what Seeker has to offer then a chest protector and really heavy duty boots and maybe even knee braces are probably more important.

True, but like Seeker said, those statistics don't quantify the severity of each type of injury. The lower body injury is very common, but something you'll probably recover from. The result of the "1%" neck injury is so severe, if the device does not cause a bother, I'm inclined to wear it.

[Dan Alexander]

Trying to interpret the graph that Andrew posted .... it looks like of the 1% of injuries that were neck injuries, roughly 78% were minor, say 15% moderate and the remaining 7% split between serious, severe, critical and maximun

[John Lyon]

With those numbers, it does get tough to justify in terms of statistics. I guess I'm also going with a little bit of karma here - since Brad has now told me/us about this new device, its forcing me to make a decision. I ride canyons, like Brad, and I've already gone over the bars once on my bicycle when I took a corner too fast and fixated on the ditch (helmet took a major hit). With the greater speed of the motorcycle, I've decided I'm in. Caveat: The device can't be a hassle or uncomfortable, which I've yet to see.

[FWC]

I'm seriously considering the Leatt brace. I'm not a competitor, but I am a paid motorcycle tour guide for a large national organization, and my riding suit of choice for that duty is my Aerostich Roadcrafter. How might the Leatt fit with that suit? I looked over the Leatt manual, and I could not visualize how it would work with the Roadcrafter suit. Also, would the Leatt be an easy on/easy off device? The beauty of the Roadcrafter suit is how quickly it goes on and off. Is it a struggle to get the Leatt on and off? Thanks!

[Seeker]

Originally posted by bradzdotcom
ink that a lot of what a rider chooses to wear as protective gear is directly connected to the type of riding that person does.
i like riding in tight, twisty canyons.
when i make a big mistake, i have to deal with trees, cliffs, giant rocks, etc...basically i go from street riding to off-road crashing in a heartbeat.

In a very different different time zone and in a galaxy far, far away, I was a professional ski patroller. Over the years, I attended to many skiers who had hit trees while tree skiing. When you lose it while tree skiing on expert slopes where the surface is steep and icy you go sliding down until you hit something. Much like a bike lowside. You then either hit one tree or bounce off several.

We've never had to deal with a broken neck. Nor did I hear of it happening when reviewing national accident stats. Doesn't mean it can't happen. But what typically happened are sometimes fatal hits to the head (skier not wearing helmet). Oftentimes internal injury to the core, creating internal bleeding. Untreated, you die quickly. Or back/hip injuries.

Internal injuries often occur when the rider crashes out in the canyons. He is awake at the side of the road and is maybe a little dazed but is talking with his friends so there is no apparent sense of urgency. Half an hour later he is dead due to internal bleeding. Or oftentimes even with EMT response, does not make it to the medical facility. Outside of the ER, internal bleeding is very difficult to treat. Some are impossible. Or ruptured aortic valve where you're just about SOL. These are far more likely scenarios.

Those types of injuries can kill you pronto. So for anyone serious about protection when riding tree-lined twisties, protecting your core/chest would be a prime consideration. Moreso than the neck, because those injuries are more likely and they are often fatal.

That said, protecting your neck in addition can't hurt and the Leatt brace does look like a good kit.


Bruno
Montreal, Canada
http://pages.videotron.com/mcrides

BRP Can-Am Spyder First Look: Adventure Tourer?
:

[John Lyon]

Originally posted by Seeker
When you lose it while tree skiing on expert slopes where the surface is steep and icy you go sliding down until you hit something.:

The different time zone sounds like Vermont. (Tree skiing on ice = bad idea and also not much fun).

[Daniel Restrepo]

firstly, great thread, great discussion and information. This is the first thread thats run this long that i've read start to finish...

that said, i'm with markjenn, repoe and a couple others... i'm pretty much done with trackdays for various reasons and therefore will most likely not invest in a neck brace at this time. i always ride with my vanson leather jacket, riding boots/gloves and Helmet. when knowingly going on a ride of longer then an hour i go Full leathers. mostly because that means higher speeds and i find leather pants more comfy then flappy jeans or anything else that flapps around. cant stand flappy!! anyway, point is, i'm all for safety. if you feel better about riding your moto with a neck brace then put that neck brace on and lets go riding. If not. Lets go riding.... who wants to go riding, its above freezing!!!!

[Seeker]

Originally posted by John Lyon
The different time zone sounds like Vermont. (Tree skiing on ice = bad idea and also not much fun).

Unlike the west, in the east, we have primo selection of hardpack.

There was a time when I would describe the surface hardness in tems of the Rockwell scale.


Bruno
Montreal, Canada
http://pages.videotron.com/mcrides

BRP Can-Am Spyder First Look: Adventure Tourer?
:

[JT-2006]

Brad thanks for posting this thread and thanks to everyone for adding to the discussion. There sure is a lot to consider here and I plan to pass on the information to my riding friends. It seems that there has been a swing toward more protective gear lately in the group I ride with. I don’t know whether to attribute that to all the bad press lately or perhaps my friends and I are just getting older.

[bradzdotcom]

anytime jt.
my original intent of the thread was to let others know about the leatt brace, but i kinda figured it would also bring up other protective gear as well. so far, we seem to have touched on just about everything but boots (i imagine that's coming soon).

my goal was to get at least one other person to purchase a leatt brace. it looks like at least four of the other guys on this board have bellied up, (And john RR is waiting for his tax refund).

i'll be posting a full report (with photos) once i get mine.

[Highlander179]

speaking of boots... the Sidi boots that I picked up on your advice a couple years ago rock!!! thanks for that too bradz

[bradzdotcom]

anytime highlander. the only complaint i have about the sidi boots is that the dang things don't wear out, and since i have a tiny sliver of the pie over at motonation (us distributor), it gets a tad frustrating to run across guys who have sidi boots and say stuff like "yep, bought 'em eight years ago, they're good for at least another three before i buy my next pair."
i tried to convince the eye-tralians of this problem. didn't get me far.
they're actually very proud of how long their boots last. what's wrong with those people?

[Highlander179]

I did happen to lose a screw that holds the toe piece on... I should just chuck 'em and buy a new pair.

[bradzdotcom]

unfortunately, they sell spare parts

[Steve Carlton]

Does Sidi have a Package Protector? I'm worrying about the boys.