Rear Wheel Play

[FWC]

Folks, maybe I'm missing something, but I thought the whole point about owning a shaft-driven bike is that they require little or no maintenance. But throughout this thread, I've been reading about too small pivot bearings that fail after 25K miles, special, high tech grease, propane torches, heat guns, the need for an extra set of hands...! Whatever. My '85 Honda Sabre shaft driven bike has 93K miles on it (bought it new) and has only needed its gear oil changed every now and then. No other maintenance required. Ever.

About the R1100S rear drive bearings... I have friends with BMW R1150GS and K1200LT bikes who have had those large ring bearings fail inside the rear drive itself. They said that BMW has upgraded this part from one with 19 ball bearings to one with 17 ball bearings. Does anyone know which of these bearings the R1100S bikes use, and is this also a weak area on the S?

Thanks!

[gigantic]

one thing to keep in mind, compared to a chain, these DO require little maintenance, periodic maintenace, perhaps but overall, not so much. reading things on this board might give you the impression that the problems that a few S owners have had, are relatively common. while I can't say whether or not the issues are indeed widespread, or isolated incidents, I can say that:
A. this is a technical forum, the best one for this model. when people have problems, they come here and discuss.
B. Most people with R1100S's aren't on this board. we merely a very vocal minority of the model ownership, so what you read here regarding maintenance/relaibility problems may or may not be representative of the model in general.
Your own results may vary. Mine certaninly have.
Lance

[Flatbutt1]

AND we are extraordinarily anal. If sunthin' on my bike ain't right, I ain't happy, so I'll come here and get some input. You are of course totally welcome to come here and chip in or just break balls but you can have the UJM.

[FWC]

Hey Gigantic and Flattbutt, I appreciate your sentiments... I love my '99 R1100S, but it is far from being as worry-free for me as are the three Hondas and one (shaft-driven) Kawasaki I also ride. And for what its worth, my S did in fact need it's paralever pivot bearings and a leaky rear drive seal replaced at under 25K miles. Both were handled under my extended, non-BMW warranty. Up until the F650 series bikes, I believe that every single BMW bike ever made was shaft-driven. To my way of thinking, that ought to make BMW the undisputed authority on motorcycle drive-shaft design. So somebody please tell me what I'm missing, here.

[jgrm1]

Originally posted by FWC
About the R1100S rear drive bearings... I have friends with BMW R1150GS and K1200LT bikes who have had those large ring bearings fail inside the rear drive itself.

The large ring bearings in my original rear drive on my 2000 model 'S took a dump ~27K miles. The whole drive was replaced under warranty.

At 40K miles, considering the seals and bearings I have put into my drivetrain, I am right at the breakeven point versus chain and sprocket replacement costs. One more failure, though, and the chain will pull ahead. I still hate lubing chains, so I guess that counts for something.

In my opinion, for street bikes, belt drives are the way to go.

-Jeff

[wswartzwel]

Originally posted by FWC
So somebody please tell me what I'm missing, here.

The Sabre does not have a floating final drive, and jumps whenever you open or close the throttle. BMW's design gives us a bike that does not upset the suspension and is a great bike for Sport touring, as you well know since you have one.

More moving parts means things wear and need replaced...

[JonyRR]

yeah, yeah, yeah.
My V65 Sabre was still the best OVERALL streetbike I ever owned, and I've had a bunch.
It stomped a K1200RS to 150, got 45MPG, ran flawlessly without eating one part that wasn't periodic maintenance for 60K miles and generally just ran and ran and ran and ran and....
but it had less soul then Brunhilda the S.
I bought a Beemer so I would stay out of jail due to right-wrist-twist disease.
A V65 Sabre will smoke an R1100S so bad it wouldn't even leave primer on the S....

[Anton]

Originally posted by JonyRR

A V65 Sabre will smoke an R1100S so bad it wouldn't even leave primer on the S....

Straight line or left-right-left-right?

[wswartzwel]

Originally posted by JonyRR

It stomped a K1200RS to 150, got 45MPG, ran flawlessly without eating one part that wasn't periodic maintenance for 60K miles and generally just ran and ran and ran and ran and....

If you rode them hard... Cams, Followers, and Chain Tensioners were considered normal maintenance items...

[JonyRR]

nope. Not mine, anyway.
megacycle VFR1000F-spec billet cams and yoshima hardened followers and a holeshot performance top-end oiling kit settled that hash.

Oops, I guess that doesn't make it 'stock' either, then. Drats.

a dynojet stage 2 kit, K&N with (yes my own design) airbox schnorkel and a hand-built pipe from mike velasco's discard pile and of course nology coils and wires. It was quick. and fast.

and also handled like an LSD-crazed logging truck on roller skates...actually not THAT bad, as it hung quite nicely with modern scoots. But then I rode it really hard in the corners.
I'd typically wear out a front tire before the rear.

My S still has more soul. (It better, for all the money I've spent on it.)

[wswartzwel]

I had a 87 VF1000R for a couple years... With the gear driven cams... gobs of torque... but it was as heavy as a gold wing... never had a minutes problem with it... sold it to a close friend and it is rotting in the back of his garage..

[FWC]

JonyRR, that's a nicely tweaked Sabre you had. My Sabre engine is all stock, and the cams, followers, etc... all look like new (with 93K on them). Never added any additional oil plumbing; just made sure to change the oil as scheduled. Now speaking of "...normal maintenance items..." one might get the impression that Oilhead gearboxes (and driveshafts/rear drives) could possibly fall into that category. Of course, like it was stated earlier, tech sites like this one do tend to be focal points that draw smaller groups of owners into discussions about mechanical issues that may not be as prevalent for the majority.

[JonyRR]

I personally feel xmission input shafts and paralaver pivot bearings are NOT!! normal maintenance items.
I've said that all along. I still would choose my S nowadays as it's such a good all-rounder, but it has a questionable reliability record for a manufacturer who stands on long-term leliability laurels.
Perception is reality, unfortunately.

And that sabre was a real one-off. Cylinderheads by DANCO racing and right before I sold it it did a 10.40 (I had a sneeky pete nitrous bottle, the little, tiny one, in the LH saddlebag )

fork springs, gold valves, a fox shock from a VFR750.

But I wanted modern wheels with radial tires, a mono swingarm and EFI. So I ended up with Brunhilda the S, beautiful, middle-aged, slightly overwieght german girl. But she tries harder

[on2wheels52]

Would that shaft/chain drive was optional like ABS/non-ABS I'd have the chain. Not the way it is, take it or leave it. I put $800 into ring & pinon repair on an '84 Guzzi V65sp worth $1500 with 11000 miles. Thats life.
Bill, just sold the SV650 you checked out for me in '04, 1800 miles in 2 years. My kid would rather ride the S. Thanks for the look.
Jim

[wswartzwel]

Anytime, glad that the purchase worked for you.

[bikerfish1100]

just adjusted my pivot bearings (thanx for the procedural tips) for the first time in ~33,000 since replacement by dealer at ~18,000. snugging back to spec removed all wheel play. something i noticed in checking the play- with wheel off, i could move the rear hub laterally (left to right oriented to rider position), see clear lateral movement, but not any axial movement (front/rear in combination with lateral play).
thought that might be helpful in future diagnosis.
also- was warned about being sure to fully heat housing to break grip of loctite. the dealer had put back together with blue loctite, as did i, rather than the tighter red. some local shops had found housing threads coming off with the floating pin when insufficient heat was employed.

[Phil Buttolph]

Two questions after reading through this tome: #1 will the 2007 R1200S have the same issues/weaknesses; proportedly a new design para/hub and #2 Where do you get what FWC mentioned: " my extended, non-BMW warranty"..I can't find who issues these and if they are worth the cost..what is the cost?

[RBMann]

Originally posted by bikerfish1100
just adjusted my pivot bearings

Keep an eye on it. If there is play then it has meant replacement, on the three I have done. The play came from somewhere, wear or the races get hammered from poor adjustment when installed.

Good luck, RB

[Dr. Curve]

Totally agree with RB...........adjustment means replacement......Period. You may can mimic a tightness by screwing down on the big bolt.......but something has changed. If you want it right......replace. If you tighten down you will end up with tapered needles which are big in the center and then taper to each end, kind long barrel like. RB has it right.

[Phil Buttolph]

Still asking...are the problems discussed on this tread specific to a certain design [which models of BMW] of Paralever? The "new" ones are proported to be a upgraded design..true?