Why I don't Fly, The List Keeps Growing...

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by speeder

I’ve always heard that going from fighter jets to being a commercial pilot is like going from being an F1 driver to driving a Greyhound bus.

My dad flew P-47 at the end of WWII.
After his business took off and he had plenty of money one day I found him admiring a Corvette.
I said "dad, you could afford that, why don't you buy one?"
"Scott, after flying a P-47 nothing could be exciting"

RE: Clueless people, one day I was going through security at the airport and a culinary student was in line with his roll up bag of knifes. He was shocked they wouldn't let him carry them on the plane.

[island_dude]

I fly a lot for work. Lots of it is international. I have global entry and TSA PRE. Global entry would be nice if they had not screwed up my records. It is now worse that getting in the long line. PRE is worth every penny.
Several years ago they were doing training on the scanners at Logan. My wife and I were "lucky" enough to get selected. My wife didn't realize she had a tissue in her pocket and ended up getting an angry TSA agent doing a secondary screening on her. This included essentially a karate chop movement up her crotch. Super painful, over the top and completely unnecessary. There isn't much you can do if you get a crazy agent. They can keep you around until your plane is gone and cost you a fortune.
Fortunately for me, some of the public backlash has had an effect on the TSA management and I have noticed a distinct change in attitude that last few years. This effect has been magnified traveling out of DC since these guys know that you could be a congressman or senator or one of their staffers. They are probably the only ones who could truly get them fired.

Anyway, I do my best to be polite and friendly and follow their directions. I have had no real issues. I have learned not to ask questions or rock the boat because it will always result in keeping me from getting to my plane. It isn't fair, but I need to fly a lot and it just isn't worth fight the fight every time.

[speeder]

I get TSA pre-check almost every time I fly and I’ve never signed up for it.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by fintstone

What they are required to do is based on real-time threat warnings.

Right, but AFAIK, the minimum standard (for the normal, non-PreCheck lines) is the body scanner (shoes/belts/jackets/etc.) and X-ray (laptops/liquids/etc.) protocol. That is (supposed to be?) enforced even on "no threat" days. The only exception that I am aware of for the non-PreCheck lines is if there are detection K9s on duty. I've had that happen a few times, so that may have been the case with previous posters, and they just didn't notice the dogs. Or they unknowingly received PreCheck upgrades. However, I have been through the normal TSA lines (prior to joining the Global Entry club) where I was waived through without the need to remove my shoes or laptop from my bag and no K9s in sight, and no PreCheck upgrade. Hence my suggestion of agent discretion. I certainly wasn't complaining about it at the time.

Originally Posted by fintstone

It does not behoove them for you to be confused any more than it does you. Since they have to route all the folks through who showed up way too late, didn’t read the signs, follow the rules, or exhibit any common sense...without increasing waits...they do their best to keep it simple. If it is difficult or slow, blame the guy in front of you who had a glock or a cold steel katana in their carry on.

I don't recall mentioning anything about being confused or blaming anyone. Simply relating a similar observation and curiosity over the seemingly selective enforcement. Again, that was before I anteed-up for GE.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

That's the difference between TSA Precheck and normal security. Likely you were in a non Precheck line, or got lucky and were upgraded to Precheck. Some airports don't have Precheck lines. It's really not that complicated, and Precheck is cheap considering the benefits.

As above, I was simply stating/relating my similar (pre-Global Entry) observations to the initial poster I quoted. See the above post for further clarification.

I am aware of the differences between TSA PreCheck/GE and "normal security" protocols (alluded to that in the post you quoted).
The question/curiosity (and resultant supposition regarding agent discretion) is in regards to the inconsistency of enforcing the "normal security" minimum standards, absent of a PreCheck upgrade and/or bomb dogs.
Sorry if bringing up that question is "overcomplicating" things.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by legion

The government has no right to inspect my naked body to prevent me from committing a crime. It's a perversion of due process and it is a presumption of guilt. The courts, in the ways that lawyers often twist things to mean the opposite of what they say, have basically ruled that you have no rights from the moment you step foot in an airport until the moment you leave the airport at your destination. The way people get treated by airlines and the TSA is unconstitutional, immoral, and unethical, but it's for our safety--which is always the excuse given when violating our civil rights.

As some have stated earlier, those machines no longer exist, but the bottom line is, if I'm flying as a passenger on a plane somewhere, I want to make damn sure the guy sitting next to me has been screened/scanned. If the price I have to pay is for me to go through that same process, then I am willing to do that.

Originally Posted by 911_Dude

The way to go is by private jet. I was waiting in the cell phone lot at SDF during the Kentucky Derby. The airport is so packed with planes they park on the taxiways, and there was a row of nice Gulfstreams, Falcon Jets, etc across the fence in front of me. The main race had finished about 30 minutes prior. As I was sitting there, a limo drove through a security gate with a wave and looped around to a waiting G5. I timed it- less than 8 minutes later the plane was taxiing for takeoff.

Yes, but all of those passengers are pre-screened way ahead of time. If they get flagged, then the crew doesn't get a flight release to depart.

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I would be very surprised if that were true. I know a lot of airline pilots that are aging out and none of them has related anything remotely like that - redundancy means the system is on the critical safety path. I'm not flying with ANY popped circuit breaker! Nor are they. They get to the accident first, btw.

My comment was more related to the devolution of pilots in the airliner food chain and how it has impacted great people coming in the door.
.

Completely false. I would bet that at least 25% of commercial planes flying on any given day have a collared circuit breaker on some system. Pretty common with the older fleets, obviously the newer ones are much better.

And I get what you are saying about the younger generation coming in to the pilot profession but most of them have better learning skills than older pilots. They grew up playing video games etc and usually have no issues with glass cockpits whereas MANY older gen pilots wash out of training and have to go back to the older fleets or worse, lose their jobs.

Oh, and single seat military pilots have the highest re training rate of ANY new hire pilot at the airlines. They have no clue on what crew concept is and certainly don't like being told what to do or how to do things. All the training IPs I know hate to get them.

Originally Posted by Don Ro

When I took my first commercial flight (late 60's) I showered, shaved, dressed nicely.
Nowadays, passengers look (and stink) like they rolled out of bed and onto the plane.
Phooey!!!

You got that right!! I remember in the late 60s ( I was @8 or so) when my grandparents would take flights to visit us and they were always dressed to the nines!!

[porsche4life]

Honestly when I fly I and to be comfortable. Who gives a rats ass what everyone is wearing. As long as they don’t stink.

[dmcummins]

There is no pre screening on private planes. What would they be screened for? You can legally take a firearm with you on a private plane at the majority of airports. It’s no different than getting in a car. You just have to be legal to carry or own from where you depart and where you land.

I’ve never heard of someone being denied a flight release. There is nothing on a flight plan except plane info and where your headed. I rarely even file a flight plan. I just tell the tower I’m headed whatever direction and go. Then when I’m out of there airspace I can head any direction I want.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

My dad flew P-47 at the end of WWII.
After his business took off and he had plenty of money one day I found him admiring a Corvette.
I said "dad, you could afford that, why don't you buy one?"
"Scott, after flying a P-47 nothing could be exciting"

RE: Clueless people, one day I was going through security at the airport and a culinary student was in line with his roll up bag of knifes. He was shocked they wouldn't let him carry them on the plane.

My experience with an F1 driver that has an investment manager in town, is the World Driver Champion comes out to the rental track and drives karts every time he is in the U.S. on business.

I suppose it isn't so much the thrill of the speed for some but instead being in control of a job well done.

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

My dad flew P-47 at the end of WWII.
After his business took off and he had plenty of money one day I found him admiring a Corvette.
I said "dad, you could afford that, why don't you buy one?"
"Scott, after flying a P-47 nothing could be exciting"

RE: Clueless people, one day I was going through security at the airport and a culinary student was in line with his roll up bag of knifes. He was shocked they wouldn't let him carry them on the plane.

My cousin Billy flew 63 combat missions over Germany in a P-51 but he didn't have a drivers license. Him and my dad grew up in Brooklyn. They didn't drive. He's 94 and just recently went up in a P-51 restored to look just like his "Tigers Revenge". My dad went up in it as well (a dream of his). Both men were smiling ear to ear.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by dmcummins

There is no pre screening on private planes. What would they be screened for? You can legally take a firearm with you on a private plane at the majority of airports. It’s no different than getting in a car. You just have to be legal to carry or own from where you depart and where you land.

I’ve never heard of someone being denied a flight release. There is nothing on a flight plan except plane info and where your headed. I rarely even file a flight plan. I just tell the tower I’m headed whatever direction and go. Then when I’m out of there airspace I can head any direction I want.

He was talking about private jets from companies like NetJets and other Part 135 companies in which yes, everybody is screened even when they fly Part 91. They must pass the same TSA no fly list that every body else flying commercial airlines does. (guns must be checked, no criminal history, etc..). And yes, every one of those flights must get a flight release from their company prior to take off. If they don't, company will get fined big time from FAA and pilot could lose their certificate. Has nothing to do with an IFR clearance. However, if you're rich enough to own your own jet and fly it strictly Part 91, then yes, basically no rules UNLESS you cross the ADIZ.. Then all pax are screened when you submit your eApis.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by dmcummins

There is no pre screening on private planes. What would they be screened for? You can legally take a firearm with you on a private plane at the majority of airports. It’s no different than getting in a car. You just have to be legal to carry or own from where you depart and where you land.

I’ve never heard of someone being denied a flight release. There is nothing on a flight plan except plane info and where your headed. I rarely even file a flight plan. I just tell the tower I’m headed whatever direction and go. Then when I’m out of there airspace I can head any direction I want.

Some years ago, when Don Malarkey hadn't been to the pool hall for a couple of Thursdays, upon his return I asked where he'd been? Evidently to Omaha for a band of brothers reunion and a charity event for an air museum there. So, I asked how he handled all the air security and other airport hassles at his age...he was in his late 80's then.

"Oh, I didn't. Tom Hanks sent his private jet for me."...

[GH85Carrera]

One of my friends, who is single, owns a Cessna 210 Turbo. One of his flying buddies wanted to go get a "$500 burger" with him and they decided to both bring new girlfriends.

Just to have have fun they told the laddies the "pre-screening" is to issue each passenger their own bottle of booze, and to make them take a shot before departure. The pilots did not partake, just the passengers. Then they were handed their own pistols.

They all enjoyed a one hour flight each way to Stearman field in Kansas and a fun restaurant right on the airport. Park the airplane and walk in.