Another brand new 737 Max crashes

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

Of course you know the answer, I'm right with you. You also know the one that made the decision isnt the least bit interested in fact, reason or logical problem solving. CYA and maybe some air time. Sad state when such a decision has such an impact on so many.

I only hope the smart folks looking at this have everything they need and come to a quick determination of the actual cause(s).

You can bet that the FAA was in constant contact with Boeing. This wasn't one man making a decision with no shared information from various sources.

[daepp]

Above we read that Boeing asked the FAA to ground them. But earlier it was claimed that DT did the grounding. Which was it?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Sure. Today. I'd get a cramp typing why.

Aviation accidents are spectacular events in lives lost and fear of the next flight.

When you ground an aircraft, there has to be a reason and a path to get the aircraft back in the air.

Ditto. The level of hysteria associated with aircraft incidents in unprecedented.

[javadog]

Daniel Elwell, acting head of the FAA, said enhanced satellite images and new evidence gathered on the ground led his agency to order the jets out of the air.

The data, he said, linked the behavior and flight path of the Ethiopian Airlines Max 8 to data from the crash of a Lion Air jet that plunged into the Java Sea and killed 187 people in October.

"Evidence we found on the ground made it even more likely that the flight path was very close to Lion Air's," Elwell told reporters on a conference call Wednesday.

Satellite data right after the crash wasn't refined enough to give the FAA what it needed to make the decision to ground planes, Elwell said. But on Wednesday, global air traffic surveillance company Aireon and Boeing were able to enhance the initial data to make it more precise "to create a description of the flight that made it similar enough to Lion Air," Elwell said.

From this article:

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2019-03-12/us-joins-ethiopian-led-investigation-at-plane-crash-site

[sammyg2]

They can bad-mouth the 737 all they want, but at least it ain't a V-22!

[tcar]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

....It looks like the 737 has about 2% of total US flights (USA Today)....

That can't be true... or do you mean MAX 8 is about 2%???? Or...???

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by tcar

That can't be true... or do you mean MAX 8 is about 2%???? Or...???

Yep max 8

https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3143113002?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.goo gle.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2F travel%2Fflights%2F2019%2F03%2F12%2Fboeing-737-max-how-many-fly-southwest-america-united-and-where%2F3143113002%2F



Flights per day


SW 160 of a total of 4000
AA 90 of 6700
United 40 of 4800

[Fly Mach .86]

This is pretty much standard procedure when something like this happens. Especially when there are many lives lost. The DC-10 fleet was grounded when one of them had a number 2 engine failure that sent bits of the engine into and severed hydraulic lines and they lost all hydraulic power. The 787 was grounded after the battery explosions. The only surprise for me was that they weren't grounded by the FAA sooner. Many dollars will be lost from all of this and that is always the driving factor. What bothers me is they will likely find an electronic/software problem. When the first automated/glass cockpit airplanes were put into service, a common question in the cockpit was, "OK, now what's it doing"? Trying to make the airplanes safer by eliminating the human factor created a whole new set of problems to deal with. When UPS first got the 757, the pilots were told to use the automation as much as possible. When pilots went in for recurrent training, it was quite clear that their flying skills had deteriorated somewhat. In some cases a lot. They were then instructed that the time spent using automation was up to the discretion of the captain.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

They can bad-mouth the 737 all they want, but at least it ain't a V-22!

Osprey is nowadays a very very safe aircraft/rotocraft/ugly thing. But it took a while...

[LeRoux Strydom]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Sure. Today. I'd get a cramp typing why.

Aviation accidents are spectacular events in lives lost and fear of the next flight.

When you ground an aircraft, there has to be a reason and a path to get the aircraft back in the air.

You are a much braver man than I am.

[kach22i]

FAA Relents, Says It Grounded 737 Max Jets Based on New Data
FAA relents, grounds Boeing 737 Max jets after getting new satellite images and evidence from the ground.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2019-03-12/us-joins-ethiopian-led-investigation-at-plane-crash-site

United Airlines, which grounded its 14 Max planes, said the aircraft account for roughly 40 flights per day. Through a combination of spare aircraft and rebooking customers, the airline did not anticipate a significant operational impact.

Southwest Airlines said it immediately complied with the order and removed its 34 Max 8 from scheduled service. The airline said the Max 8 planes account for less than 5 percent of the airline's daily flights, adding that it remains confident in the airliner after completing more than 88,000 flight hours over 41,000 flights, but that it supports the FAA's decision.

Ethiopian Airlines CEO Tewolde Gebremariam said its pilots had received special training on how to deal with the Max's anti-stall software that could point the nose down.

"In addition to the basic trainings given for 737 aircraft types, an additional training was given for the Max version," Tewolde told state news reporters. "After the Lion Air crash, questions were raised, so Boeing sent further instructions that it said pilots should know."

Tewolde said he is confident the "investigation will reveal that the crash is not related to Ethiopian Airlines' safety record."

[Seahawk]

Try this: https://flightaware.com/

I use it to track my kids flights into DC. They detail the aircraft being used as well.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by peteremsley

I've got 4 SW flights coming up in the next 10 days - anyone know how you can tell in advance if you are scheduled to be on one of these planes? I'd like to change them earlier rather than later if I could find out. Tried buy no luck so far... perhaps its just too early to predict given all the cancelations and diversions because of weather going on?

Well, given that "these planes" are all grounded, I'd wager your chances of being on one of them is zero.

No way this will be resolved in 10 days.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by peteremsley

obviously I realize that. my desire is to find an alternative flight on the carrier that will take off and arrive at its intended destination... if needed.

This makes no sense.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by peteremsley

obviously I realize that. my desire is to find an alternative flight on the carrier that will take off and arrive at its intended destination... if needed.

Take a bus.

[javadog]

I would expect SW will substitute another plane in their inventory, if your flights were booked on the Max 8 or 9. A quick call to SW would probably clear it up.

[javadog]

Sounds like they are still figuring it out. Added to the weather you've had, things might be fouled up for days.

[javadog]

I checked their website and they are showing the flight status for upcoming flights. Have you checked those?

[Gogar]

You can find the plane info on flightaware but I’m not sure how far in advance.

Southwest flights from Denver since yesterday are a mess through the weekend. My trip to San Pedro got
Cancelled because I can’t get to HOU from Denver or Albuquerque.

[Jeff NJ]

I have a SW flight from EWR to MSP on 4/5 to go to the Final 4 in Minneapolis and on their website yesterday it showed the plane as a max 8 (737-800) for the connection from MDW to MSP, so that's a problem.

The trip info after its booked doesn't give the model plane, but if you go to book that same flight, it says it there and today they updated the plane to a 737-700, so I am good.

This is where you can see it:



As an added bonus, I see the 2nd leg (which is the one where the plane was just switched out) has an on time arrival percentage of zero! Yay me!