Debunk this... Cmdr. David Fravor

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Which is probably why they left me alone

As an individual, I think you would pass almost any test. As a group, we could probably learn to play better with others.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by L8Brakr

I find it a near certainty that we are not alone, but the physics of time and distance make me question why anything out there would expend the effort to visit a single blue dot in the corner of a very ordinary galaxy.

Look at how far we have come in the last 150 years. If we make it through the next hundred, who knows what we could be doing in the next few thousand. I don't think we can really know what would motivate a mature sentient race, because I don't think we have gotten there yet. Civilization sometimes seems like a thin veneer for us. If anyone is watching us, I have to assume they are wondering if we are safe for space.

[sc_rufctr]

Considering how rare life seems to be throughout our Galaxy maybe that's why they're here.
I believe the Commander but that doesn't necessarily mean they're aliens. It could be another phenomenon we don't know about.
Time shift/travel from our own future?

How long has SETI been searching? (founded in 1984) And so far nothing...

That tells us something important. Life on Earth is special and very rare.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Considering how rare life seems to be throughout our Galaxy maybe that's why they're here.
I believe the Commander but that doesn't necessarily mean they're aliens. It could be another phenomenon we don't know about.
Time shift/travel from our own future?

How long has SETI been searching? (founded in 1984) And so far nothing...

That tells us something important. Life on Earth is special and very rare.

Or the big kids in the neighborhood aren't trying to talk to the silly monkeys that are throwing their poo in the corner of the playground.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Look at how far we have come in the last 150 years. If we make it through the next hundred, who knows what we could be doing in the next few thousand.

I often use the "Sound Barrier" when people tell me about physics and the impossibility of deep space travel and the many limits I could recite chapter and verse.

In 1935, a simplified explanation of the challenges of supersonic flight led to the creation of the term "sound barrier," which seemed to imply a physical wall that could not be overcome.

"Experts" have been the limiting factor on scientific advancement since Claudius Ptolemy.

But I digress. The thing I liked most about the the CDR is that he said what 99% of the folks I have talked to with similar experiences: "I saw what I saw."

That's it. I have no way, nor am I capable of, forming a rational explanation of what I saw.

[BK911]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Look at how far we have come in the last 150 years. If we make it through the next hundred, who knows what we could be doing in the next few thousand.

We live in a relatively new galaxy. Imagine an intelligent life form that has another 1000+ years of technology than us.

[L8Brakr]

Originally Posted by BK911

We live in a relatively new galaxy. Imagine an intelligent life form that has another 1000+ years of technology than us.

Absolutely. I completely agree. But as we only began to generate information capable of covering interstellar distances roughly 100 years ago (early radio tech), and then initial video transmissions roughly 80 years ago....plus nuclear explosions about the same time.

Provided the speed of light being the universal speed limit is factual, this means we have only announced our presence to a distance of 100 light years. It will take another 29,900 light years for our initial hello just to reach the center of the Milky Way.

They would have to be an extremely close neighbor (as measured in space distances) to even know we are here.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by L8Brakr

Absolutely. I completely agree. But as we only began to generate information capable of covering interstellar distances roughly 100 years ago (early radio tech), and then initial video transmissions roughly 80 years ago....plus nuclear explosions about the same time.

Provided the speed of light being the universal speed limit is factual, this means we have only announced our presence to a distance of 100 light years. It will take another 29,900 light years for our initial hello just to reach the center of the Milky Way.

They would have to be an extremely close neighbor (as measured in space distances) to even know we are here.

That's assuming that they would only go to a place where they have received some indication of intelligent life. That's not how humans explore. For the most part, we go as far as we can go with the existing technology in every direction just to see what's there. If they are technologically advanced enough to travel the distances from where they are to where we are, then they may just go everywhere that they can get to or they may have a better idea of places to go and reasons to think there may be something interesting in those places. What they find interesting may be completely different from what we find interesting. Hell, they could accidentally find us while doing something else or going somewhere else. If they are that advanced, we are unlikely to have any idea why they do things or what motivates them. Attributing our reasoning and motivations to another advanced life form is probably as reasonable as doing the same to horses, spiders or parameciums.

[L8Brakr]

Originally Posted by masraum

That's assuming that they would only go to a place where they have received some indication of intelligent life. That's not how humans explore. For the most part, we go as far as we can go with the existing technology in every direction just to see what's there. If they are technologically advanced enough to travel the distances from where they are to where we are, then they may just go everywhere that they can get to or they may have a better idea of places to go and reasons to think there may be something interesting in those places. What they find interesting may be completely different from what we find interesting. Hell, they could accidentally find us while doing something else or going somewhere else. If they are that advanced, we are unlikely to have any idea why they do things or what motivates them. Attributing our reasoning and motivations to another advanced life form is probably as reasonable as doing the same to horses, spiders or parameciums.

Much in your post to agree with regarding unknown motivations, but you seen to be conflicted within your own arguement.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by L8Brakr

Much in your post to agree with regarding unknown motivations, but you seen to be conflicted within your own arguement.

Yeah, it is hard not to attribute our own methods and motivations to others even when you realize that it doesn't make sense.

[pwd72s]

Considering the long timeline of sightings, whoever or whatever is piloting these craft probably has no harmful intentions. With technology this advanced there is probably the technology to destroy.

Fighter pilots are different though. Fravor mentioning "creating" UFO's on training missions....my former F-111 pilot has told of similar antics. Young pranksters they are...

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Fighter pilots are different though. Fravor mentioning "creating" IFO's on training missions....my former F-111 pilot has told of similar antics. Young pranksters they are...

I have many, many night vision goggle stories...

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Considering the long timeline of sightings, whoever or whatever is piloting these craft probably has no harmful intentions. With technology this advanced there is probably the technology to destroy.

Fighter pilots are different though. Fravor mentioning "creating" IFO's on training missions....my former F-111 pilot has told of similar antics. Young pranksters they are...

Unless they are doing genetic engineering. We do have people like Rosie O'Donnell and Sheila Jackson Lee and all the people actually voted for her.

[john70t]

The Foo Fighters are named after WW2 objects which followed bomber aircraft, as reported.

There are folklore stories of "ball lightning" which came down chimneys, around a room, and back up again.

There are things well beyond our basic comprehension at this time, and might continue to be so into the distant future.
Electricity is still new to humans....

I've personally seen a falling 'meteor' streak across the sky and make a right hand turn back in the 1980's.
And again a fast moving 'satellite' which bounced around randomly (while the other stars stood still) in the 2000's.
No substances involved in both events.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I have many, many night vision goggle stories...

I can only imagine.

The good Commander was ridiculously credible, especially not being upset that he was vectored to a target that was unknown and crazy.

Half a mile is really close in an airplane. LOL.

[74-911]

Some food for thought:

The Fermi Paradox: Where the Hell Are the Other Earths?

https://gizmodo.com/the-fermi-paradox-where-the-hell-are-the-other-earths-1580345495/+ashleyfeinberg

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I often use the "Sound Barrier" when people tell me about physics and the impossibility of deep space travel and the many limits I could recite chapter and verse.

In 1935, a simplified explanation of the challenges of supersonic flight led to the creation of the term "sound barrier," which seemed to imply a physical wall that could not be overcome.

Except we knew that bullets regularly exceeded the speed of sound. The X1 was purposely shaped like a 0.50 cal bullet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_X-1

[zakthor]

I love this sort of stuff... Great example of how science works. Got unexplained phenomenon, how do we proceed?

Similar to flat earth and fake lunar landings... We can shoot for the sky and turn everything upside down, giant govt conspiracies 'n secret labs. Theres lots of valid hypothesis. Until theres more facts in this case you get to pick from a myriad of explanations.

I figure all thinking people are hoping this is aliens or some new physics, who wouldnt want new coolness to expand human knowledge?

My gut says its something minor but my fingers are crossed.

Whats tragic though is when people start acting like the crazy theories are real. Ive spent time with lunar landing deniers and man their world models are a disjointed mess.

[smadsen]

Jody only wanted $17m (in 1970).

[tabs]

Originally Posted by zakthor

I love this sort of stuff... Great example of how science works. Got unexplained phenomenon, how do we proceed?

Similar to flat earth and fake lunar landings... We can shoot for the sky and turn everything upside down, giant govt conspiracies 'n secret labs. Theres lots of valid hypothesis. Until theres more facts in this case you get to pick from a myriad of explanations.

I figure all thinking people are hoping this is aliens or some new physics, who wouldnt want new coolness to expand human knowledge?

My gut says its something minor but my fingers are crossed.

Whats tragic though is when people start acting like the crazy theories are real. Ive spent time with lunar landing deniers and man their world models are a disjointed mess.

Have you read "To Serve Mankind?"