Sweden Did It Wrong

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Eric Coffey

+1

And of course Norway has half the population (and half the work force) of Sweden.
They also have vastly different geographies/demographics.

When further compared to Norway, Sweden has:

A much higher percentage of the population who is 65+ years old, and...
Far more (and more active) ports/trade routes, and...
5x the rail/roadway infrastructure, and...
3x the number of airports, and...
5x the refugee population, and...
3x the number of "eldercare" facilities, and...


Funny how none of the pretty charts ever seem to explain/reveal the other potential factors to consider.

Yes, lies by omission. Aimed squarely at those who already "know" the information presented on these charts to be true. Gives them that satisfaction of "haha - I knew it, I was right all along". These same folks, of course, immediately reject any information contrary to what they "knew" was "right all along".

It's frustrating to watch. For those of us who are sometimes tasked with tracking, charting, and understanding trends (in my case so we could at least have some hope of predicting component life cycles), the haphazard way in which this "data" is collected and presented, the all too many omissions of important variables, renders all of this "data" useless. Someone clearly has an agenda. Someone clearly knows their audience...

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Interesting.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Yes, lies by omission. Aimed squarely at those who already "know" the information presented on these charts to be true. Gives them that satisfaction of "haha - I knew it, I was right all along". These same folks, of course, immediately reject any information contrary to what they "knew" was "right all along".

It's frustrating to watch. For those of us who are sometimes tasked with tracking, charting, and understanding trends (in my case so we could at least have some hope of predicting component life cycles), the haphazard way in which this "data" is collected and presented, the all too many omissions of important variables, renders all of this "data" useless. Someone clearly has an agenda. Someone clearly knows their audience...

We both work in aerospace, an industry that lives and dies on data. So I agree it’s infuriating. I wanted to see data at the KS level on new hospitalizations per day, couldn’t find it. Everything is cumulative because of corse that gives a bar chart showing everything going up (scary!), and the data at the KDHE level isn’t even downloadable to Excel, pdf and ppt only. Funny how there’s even an option to download a csv formatted file but it’s greyed out. So why would the public health authorities not want you to download and review the data yourself? Ultimately I found the numbers showing cumulative hospitalizations per day and simply calculated new hospitalizations per day and guess what? The trend line is downward sloping. Funny how they don’t show that chart. Nope, they’re all scary looking upwards sloping charts to justify the governor’s attempt to keep the state shutdown and make masks mandatory.

[ckissick]

Not a success? Hmm...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/swedens-coronavirus-death-toll-now-130000568.html

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Sweden's economy is in the tank and thousands of people died unnecessarily. Yeah, definitely a success.

[Sooner or later]

We are in the top of the 2nd in a 9 inning game.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

It honestly doesn't matter where we are at this point. Tons of people died unnecessarily, Sweden's economy faired no better than lockdown countries, herd immunity is a pipe dream, and so on.

The fact is the good citizens of Sweden achieved the lowering death rates by themselves mirroring lockdown country strategies of social distancing, etc. Sweden isn't a country of morons.

Even if Sweden's strategy was unequivocally a success, the U.S. could never use it. We ARE a nation of morons hootin and hollerin about our rights to not wear masks and do whatever the F we want, cuz, constitushun. And more hatestream media fake news than you shake a stick at.

And for those trumpeting Sweden as the correct model, I have 3 words for you. Florida, Texas and Arizona. Remember all those Suecophiles pointing to Florida's great success a few months ago? Yeah. Super successful.

[911boost]

Do you take joy in seeing other fail? It really feels (reads) like you do.

Must suck to be that way.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by 911boost

Do you take joy in seeing other fail? It really feels (reads) like you do.

Must suck to be that way.

What an interesting perspective, truly! No, I take joy in people being alive.

The flip side question for you is, do you take joy seeing people die needlessly?

Because that's my entire position. Sweden's model guaranteed needless deaths.

I take joy in people staying alive. It's great to be this way.

[Sooner or later]

Shaun, in the end Sweden may end up with less deaths per capita. Then again, they may not. It is far too early to say "people died needlessly ".

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

. . .

Even if Sweden's strategy was unequivocally a success, the U.S. could never use it. We ARE a nation of morons hootin and hollerin about our rights to not wear masks and do whatever the F we want, cuz, constitushun. And more hatestream media fake news than you shake a stick at.

. . .

Who we put in charge is clear evidence of this.

[ckelly78z]

Sweden has a better chance of success by cooperation (rather than strict lockdown) because most of the people are of the same culture, and mindset, and strive for common goals.

The United States is known as being a "melting pot" of cultures, which is good for diversity, and different ideas, but bad for cooperation to achieve any goals.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

Shaun, in the end Sweden may end up with less deaths per capita. Then again, they may not. It is far too early to say "people died needlessly ".

I disagree and math will prove me correct.

What does the death rate have to be on a weekly or monthly basis over 1 year, or 2 years, for Denmark, Finland and Norway to just equal the Swedish death rate to date.

that math will set you free.

If you don't like neighboring countries, have fun with a few others and see what you come up with.

Math, like death, is absolute.

[livi]

If Sweden had been populated by Swedes the statistics would mirror our fellow Nordic countries. Alas it isn´t and now we pay yet another price for our extreme immigration policies. Hybris, hipocrisy, social anxiety, conformism and the apathy of pleasant living have put us on the highway to self destruction as a nation.

[RSBob]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

Sweden has a better chance of success by cooperation (rather than strict lockdown) because most of the people are of the same culture, and mindset, and strive for common goals.

The United States is known as being a "melting pot" of cultures, which is good for diversity, and different ideas, but bad for cooperation to achieve any goals.

Must respectfully disagree with the melting pot statement. The issue in this country with health and just about every other major issue, is unnecessary politicization.

I do agree about Sweden’s population cooperation as being helpful, but your comments hint at racism or nativism. If that’s not your intent, then that’s fine.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Who we put in charge is clear evidence of this.

You know if our Governor Charlie Baker (R) were president, the entire country would be stabilized and we'd have a plan for everything including school reopenings. We got hit hard early, Gov. Baker and his admin did a fantastic job managing the crisis, communicating a plan and MA residents did and overall excellent job following the plan. Very proud of my state and admin.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

What does the death rate have to be on a weekly or monthly basis over 1 year, or 2 years, for Denmark, Finland and Norway to just equal the Swedish death rate to date.

that math will set you free.

Thinking that "math" is conclusive for the "Sweden got it wrong" narrative will keep you in mental chains.
What will it take for some to comprehend the additional factors/variables involved? Even when they are presented in the same thread, and even when relayed by a native Swede?

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

If you don't like neighboring countries, have fun with a few others and see what you come up with.

Already done, from page 2:

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

Math, like death, is absolute.

Sure, but if you are trying to use elementary arithmetic to "solve" a problem that requires numerical PDE-level math, you're gonna-have-a-bad-time...

[Bigtoe32067]

Man there are some serious idiot know it alls in this thread.
There are no accurate numbers therefore all of this a waste of time.
Tony

[Laneco]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

^^^

How in the flying faaaak, in this day and age, does someone allow themselves to be vitamin D deficient (information about it readily available, many foods vitamin D fortified, supplements dirt cheap, etc.)?! I guess a combination of ignorance and stupidity?

Until just a few years ago, most people were not tested for Vitamin D deficiency, likely under the highly misguided belief that the fortified foods, cheap supplements, etc., were all that was needed. I am very careful to use sunscreen/cover up outdoors. The good news, is that it is an effective strategy for my pinkish coloring, but a terrible one for Vitamin D. I was so deficient when I finally got tested that going to an injected form of Vitamin D was discussed. Instead i "got some sun" and took 10,000 units of Vitamin D every day. Still take 10,000 units every day. Not cheap Vitamin D but a highly soluble form that my Doctor recommended. With that...I barely test in the normal range in the summer. It is not sufficient in the winter.

angela

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^
That is very interesting - thanks.

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

You know if our Governor Charlie Baker (R) were president, the entire country would be stabilized and we'd have a plan for everything including school reopenings. We got hit hard early, Gov. Baker and his admin did a fantastic job managing the crisis, communicating a plan and MA residents did and overall excellent job following the plan. Very proud of my state and admin.

That's all fine and dandy, but can that bisch troll Twitter like a biggly boss and can he come up with derogatory nicknames for his adversaries?! And what about his skillz at throwing fuel on already caustic situations; does he revel in societal division?