If you are "self made," could you do it again in this economy?

[Seahawk]

What is frustrating is the all or nothing approach to this question.

I know people with every "advantage" in the world that have punted on first down; Shakespeare couldn't write the tragedies.

Then, of course, those that overcome tragedies and write, in the mean, their own stories without being abetted.

Me?

I am the product of a lucky Olympic gene pool and parents...and I still almost gooned it.

My wife?

Heinous parents and she did everything she needed to survive and flourish while protecting herself and brother from inevitable abuse...she fought. Amazing resilience and she was alone in her efforts.

We decided to take the best and worst from each and move forward. So far, so good.

[Tobra]

Because an all or nothing approach to practically is stupid

Originally Posted by porsche tech

First time I think I have ever agreed with cockerpunk. It’d be pretty smug of one to say they were “self made”.

No you don't. He just expresses himself poorly

I hit the GD lottery myself. Genetically gifted in every way. That and the home I grew up in is my superpower

[fastfredracing]

I honestly , think I could pull it off again if I had to . We did purchase houses really , really cheap at the very bottom of the market in 2008, and I am not sure if we will ever see that kind of depressed pricing for real estate again, but other than that . Im sure I could open another shop and turn it into something in a decade or so .
Just gotta get up , work hard, and make smart decesions every day .. Put in extra effort as much as you can, no matter how little it seems at the time, every day . It all adds up over a lifetime .

[Dixie]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

...I am the product of a lucky Olympic gene pool and parents...and I still almost gooned it....

My daddy always said, "it's what you do with what you're given that counts."

Since y'all are arguing anyway, I'll throw in that I think the character we possess is more important than having a bunch of money. Teach your children to be good adults.

[GH85Carrera]

I had wonderful parents. I knew I would have a warm bed to sleep in, and food on the table. I was never abused, and had a "Leave it too Beaver" childhood.

When I turned 15.5 and asked my dad what car I was getting, he laughed and said "whatever you can afford to buy". He did give me an interest free loan and he paid for the insurance. I paid 100% of every other expense on my 1960 VW bug. I paid for all the maintenance, and replacement tires. My parents instilled in me the value of hard work to make money. I got my driver's license on my 16th birthday it it.

I really understood the value of hard work. I had a part time job when I was a junior in high school, and that taught me photography. I saw wedding photography as a great "side gig" and profitable, but it was stressful in that there is no redo. Every photo had to be properly exposed, and in focus to make the print look good. Then I discovered every football coach wants a film to review the plays from snap to whistle. I bought a 16 mm movie camera and lugged it to the top of the press box, and froze and shivered and filmed Jr. High of Thursday, High School on Friday, and College on Saturday nights. It sucked for my social life. But at age 19 I walked into the VW dealership that also sold Porsche & Audi. I ordered my 1974 914 2.0 to my specs. It was not because my parents gave my one nickle to make the purchase.

So yea, my parents raised me and that was a great childhood. But I was on my own after that. I ate a lot of rice, potato soup, macaroni and cheese in my early days. When I bought my house at age 27, I got a fantastic interest rate of only 12.5% for the mortgage. Banks and credit unions were at 18% interest. Yet today I hear people whine about a 6% interest rate.

I got out of bed every work day and spent the full day at work. I rose too the top of my company and then photography changed due to digital. I was lucky know to change to aerial photography and stay in photography all my life. More than once I was reminded I do for a living what many people rush home from work to do as a hobby.

I live in my dream home with no mortgage, and the only debt I have is the airplane payment on our Cessna 182T. The business pays for it, and it is safe and secure in a hangar and going up in value about as much as my 1985 911.

[Skillet83]

YES!!! The opportunity is still out there, just have to be willing to eat the chit to get there. I am 60, 3 years into my last start up. 3 years in, low to mid 6 figure net income. Income will just climb. At year 5, should be around 500K-700K net. All in flyover country, middle of America. BTW, after starting out as a young man in banking and public finance, I clean toilets for a living, facility services, building service contractor. Owned and operated multiple companies in 3 states. Take the excess cash over the years and have created a nice real estate portfolio along with a nice brokerage account.
If I was a young man, go into plumbing, HVAC, IT, service business, etc... Work for someone for 3-5 years, then go out on your own. No other way if you want to earn a large income. After doing this for over 30 years, it is so easy. Have gone into an unknown city and created a 2MM business in under 3 years. Not for the faint of heart. Beats the chit out of the people I see trudging into an elevator at 8:00 a.m. with the look of despair they have on their faces. My 26 year old son is doing it now currently. People always need to pay for various services, weather home or business, chit needs taking care of. The condition of the economy has never once altered our trajectory including 2008-2009.If you are young, ambitious, do not have to be a wage slave.

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

Just gotta get up , work hard, and make smart decisions every day.

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I had wonderful parents...a "Leave it to Beaver" childhood.

Same here...Wally was the big bother I never had

[A930Rocket]

A lot of Leave it to Beaver families in the 60s, including us. I was never a good student, including Uni. Thinking back, I probably had ADD (and still do), as I could not focus or concentrate more than a minute. But, I finally graduated Uni and went into construction, building homes. Been doing it ever since.

Vitalis for us. We hated it…

Originally Posted by rcooled

[/INDENT]

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Dixie

My daddy always said, "it's what you do with what you're given that counts."

Since y'all are arguing anyway, I'll throw in that I think the character we possess is more important than having a bunch of money. Teach your children to be good adults.

i often feel like this advice applies to men who are unsuccessful at dating, and get into blaming women for their issues mode.

like, you gotta play the hand you are dealt. doesn't matter what you think about how fair it is, and ill be the first one to advocate for making the world more fair for the next generation, but in the mean time ... you gotta play the hand you are dealt. no one else is going to play it for you.




to the notion its "all or nothing" ... the thread started with it :shrug:. i merely presented the other side, that we are the product of our inputs, just the same as we are a product of our outputs.

one thing is for sure in all of that, that anyone successful in life, by any metric, has someone, somewhere, to thank for it. that isnt communism, thats not being a dick.

the concept you are circling here is called opportunity, for which we all had very different opportunities. some folks dont even get a seat at the table, others are born on 3rd and a half base, and still get thrown out at home. some people get a half a dozen chances to get rich, some barely get one. its not fair, it was never intended to be fair, but to pretend its the same for everyone is just not reality.

[wdfifteen]

Well, since the OP hasn't been directly addressed in a while ...

Originally Posted by LWJ

Assuming you didn't inherit a business or a trust fund and your rise to middle class or more was on your own efforts. Could you do the same if you were 22 years old in 2024?

For me the answer is yes. With the same birth and upbringing and the same motivators that kept me going for 65 years, I would have found a way. I think I am "self-made" as the OP defines it.

I understand CP's point, but he takes it too far. Yes CP, I was born on third base - white, male, and healthy, and I know it. I could have been born in a dirt hut in Zimbabwe, but I was lucky. As Dixie said, it's what we do with what we are given that makes us "self-made."
The lyrics of a Jackson Browne song, The Pretender, has stuck with me for 50 years and though it hasn't been a guiding light, I can strongly relate. I could not stand the thought of throwing myself into the loving arms of a benevolent employer for the security it offered. I have always wanted to be doing work that I found fun and challenging. I finished a degree in mechanical engineering, worked for GM and in aerospace for a while, and felt totally stifled. I quit to start a publishing company. I also took some side projects here and there when they looked like fun (mostly authoring books and photography projects). As it turns out, "following my heart" was profitable as well as satisfying. I feel "self made" because I guided my career(s) myself and have had a wonderful time doing it.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Well, since the OP hasn't been directly addressed in a while ...



For me the answer is yes. With the same birth and upbringing and the same motivators that kept me going for 65 years, I would have found a way. I think I am "self-made" as the OP defines it.

I understand CP's point, but he takes it too far. Yes CP, I was born on third base - white, male, and healthy, and I know it. I could have been born in a dirt hut in Zimbabwe, but I was lucky. As Dixie said, it's what we do with what we are given that makes us "self-made."
The lyrics of a Jackson Browne song, The Pretender, has stuck with me for 50 years and though it hasn't been a guiding light, I can strongly relate. I could not stand the thought of throwing myself into the loving arms of a benevolent employer for the security it offered. I have always wanted to be doing work that I found fun and challenging. I finished a degree in mechanical engineering, worked for GM and in aerospace for a while, and felt totally stifled. I quit to start a publishing company. I also took some side projects here and there when they looked like fun (mostly authoring books and photography projects). As it turns out, "following my heart" was profitable as well as satisfying.

unless words mean something else in your universe, being "lucky" means you didnt make it yourself.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Not self made but I've worked, long, hard and sacrificed a lot combined with unwavering support from my family and plenty of lucky breaks to make something of myself in the area of business I work in

Starting again I'm not sure I could get to where I am or get inside the places I've worked

Game has moved on by a huge margin because of the extraordinarily high level of young, new engineering talent

Young me wouldn't stand a chance of getting in today

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

no one is self made, so no, you couldn't "do it again" because you didn't do it in the first place.

With that attitude, I would think that success in life will pass you over.

[Tidybuoy]

My 401k got me started. I upped the percentage every year and eventually got to the company allowed max. At 37 yrs old, I borrowed 50% of my balance and bought my house. Prior that that, I was a poor soul. I had credit card debt that was too high, but I made a concerted effort to pay off and close accounts. I rounded up on my mortgage payments and the last two years before paying off in full, I paid enough extra each month to round down the balance to the nearest thousand - it became a game.

After I paid off my mortgage (in 19 years), I went a year without a house payment and paid off all other debt. A year later, I jumped back in and mortgaged my house to buy a rental duplex. I've been lucky with having the same good tenants for 5+ years.

I continued to max out my 401k which included the old guy catchup amount but also put my rental profits into a Schwab brokerage account. I used that money this month to purchase my next rental - escrow closes this Friday 12-06-2024.

One thing I can say, my parents were successful but with 8 kids, we were not rich. My parents never gave me any kind of financial advice - I wish they had. I would have got started much earlier but I'm still happy with my outcome. If I were to give any advice to young people, save 25% of your gross starting with your very first job! Lastly, keep a positive attitude - a lot of my success is from lucky breaks, and I believe the universe is looking out for me.

[RNajarian]

Perhaps some context is in order . . .




So if your dad/mom put a roof over your head, made sure you went to school and you become very successful without and financial boost from them then you are self made.

Not trying to PARF this up but Donald Trump is NOT self made because his dad financially supported him when he was starting out.

Elon Musk IS self made because he became successful without family money.

[pavulon]

Good or less than good fortune determines a considerable portion of how things turn out for people. Of course, most people don't appreciate the role it plays or can't admit that their situation wasn't in lock-step with their intentions and doings. The early Bill Gates story is pretty remarkable. Gladwell's book Outliers covers some of the angles.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

unless words mean something else in your universe, being "lucky" means you didnt make it yourself.

Well then, who is the author of my success (as I defined it)?
You are being needlessly argumentative. I'm on your side 90% and you STILL insist on arguing.

[Bill Douglas]

Advice I give to young people is to have a game plan and stick to it. Don't take advice from so called experts, friends, frenemies. Work two jobs at times. Doesn't really matter what you do, just be really good at it and stick to it.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

we are the product of our inputs, just the same as we are a product of our outputs.

I used to think that nurture had a bigger impact than nature, but over the years I've adjusted my thinking to think that nature has a much larger impact than nurture. Nurture may/can have a big impact on how folks turn out, but I think it's secondary to our genetic make-up.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

Perhaps some context is in order . . .




So if your dad/mom put a roof over your head, made sure you went to school and you become very successful without and financial boost from them then you are self made.

Not trying to PARF this up but Donald Trump is NOT self made because his dad financially supported him when he was starting out.

Elon Musk IS self made because he became successful without family money.

Hey, fella, bringing facts and common sense into this discussion is uncalled for!

So the definition of "self-made" has nothing to do with genetics or how supported you were as a 5 year old or 10 year old? I'm sure none of us would have thought that.