Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

[nostatic]

Originally posted by widebody911
NoStatic's sense of humor is actually malignant...

you should see my sense of smell...

[widebody911]

Originally posted by nostatic
you should see my sense of smell...

I've heard that dogs smell 10 times better than you...

[nostatic]

it depends on the dog. And what shampoo they use. At least I don't have any fleas or ticks anymore...

[lendaddy]

Tech, I would be interested in seeing your sorce on the entrance exam. Not saying it isn't true, would just like to see it.

[speeder]

Look, I hate what political campaigns have become. I'm not 100% crazy about Kerry running on the Viet Nam vet plan, he really should not even have to mention it under the circumstances, but the right is slandering him so doggedly that I guess that is their way of defending.

How do you Republicans feel about Max Cleland's GOP opponent running a TV ad against him w/ his face on the screen w/ Osama Bin Laden's? (Cleland was a Dem Senator from Georgia before he was defeated in '02 using that classy campaign. Oh yeah, he also lost both legs and one arm in Viet Nam).

Most of the Republicans here seem like decent folks, so I'm not trying to paint all w/ the same brush, but of course if the shoe fits, wear it.

Just a commentary on the level of discourse in American electoral politics lately.

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by speeder
How do you Republicans feel about Max Cleland's GOP opponent running a TV ad against him w/ his face on the screen w/ Osama Bin Laden's? (Cleland was a Dem Senator from Georgia before he was defeated in '02 using that classy campaign. Oh yeah, he also lost both legs and one arm in Viet Nam).

Come on Denis, liberals never have given a crap about vets, they are still motivated by the drugged out hazy memory of baby-killing soldiers, murderers, etc...All of the sudden the Democrats feign they care about vets and Vietnam?...Please...They always have and still do loathe the military, the CIA, the FBI, cops, the School of Americas, in fact anything military...The Democrats never stood up for Bob Dole, you never cared about Bill Clinton dodging the draft (I am talking about textbook dodge).

Now you guys care about vets...bull*****.

As for Max Cleland...When Bush was trying to get funding for Homeland Security, Cleland was more concerned with the government employee unions demands...Cleland was bought and paid for by the corrupt union bosses and was grabbing his ankles in war time...Max Cleland put union interests and $$$$ in front of security concerns...The voters didn't like it and he lost.

Don't let the scumbag liberals brainwash you with their tripe, Denis.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Tech, I would be interested in seeing your sorce on the entrance exam. Not saying it isn't true, would just like to see it.

Read it and weep.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm

...you might also appreciate the 'why he stopped flying' story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A60817-2004Feb21?language=printer

[techweenie]

Apparently, you are going to benefit more from wars by not going -- just claiming you did.

GWB:

"I learned some good lessons from Vietnam"__ March, 2002

``I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I had a choice, I'd rather go to war.'' January, 2002

That's probably all you need to know to be a 'war president' Oh, sorry, now GWB is claiming he wants to be 'a peace president.' Hard to keep up.

I guess GWB was channeling Reagan when he talked about his war experience, except GWB wasn't even in movies about it.

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by techweenie
Read it and weep.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm

...you might also appreciate the 'why he stopped flying' story:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A60817-2004Feb21?language=printer

Well, at least he isn't a war criminal and murderer.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Mulholland
Well, at least he isn't a war criminal and murderer.

That's a matter of some debate.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20030319.html

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by techweenie
That's a matter of some debate.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20030319.html

So tell me, why is this author believable?...Also, I will not fish through a mountain of some liberal's nonsense, so do me a favor and boil it down for me, would ya?

One thing that is not open for debate...The Communists who to this day currently occupy Vietnam, subjugate the people, slaughter them for political dissidence, enslave their people...never had a greater asset than John Forbes Kerry. Not even Jane Fonda was as instrumental in intentionally undermining the war effort and handing victory to the socialist butchers of Vietnam.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by speeder

How do you Republicans feel about Max Cleland's GOP opponent running a TV ad against him w/ his face on the screen w/ Osama Bin Laden's? (Cleland was a Dem Senator from Georgia before he was defeated in '02 using that classy campaign. Oh yeah, he also lost both legs and one arm in Viet Nam).

Most of the Republicans here seem like decent folks, so I'm not trying to paint all w/ the same brush, but of course if the shoe fits, wear it.

Just a commentary on the level of discourse in American electoral politics lately.

If Max Cleland chooses to run for office...in spite of his handicap...why should his opponents be expected to not hold him accountable for his sad voting record?

The fact that he was injured on a beer run by picking up an unpinned grenade that his buddy dropped (a stupid mistake according to him) is hardly a reason to expect the other party to go easy on him. If he wanted to stay in office, he should have voted a bit more "pro-military" in a very "pro-military" state like GA. When I lived in GA, people pitied him for his injuries, but voted based on his record.

[Mulholland]

http://www.scaryjohnkerry.com/vietnam.htm

[speeder]

The people of Georgia definitely had the right to agree or disagree w/ his voting record in the senate, I was refering to the GOP ad by his opponent that transposed his face w/ that of Bin Laden and Saddam. That would have constituted a new low in dirty campaigning if the guy was a certified draft dodger, but to do that to someone who served honorably and was maimed so horribly, is beyond shameful. What, they couldn't just attack him on the issues??

And the exact circumstances of his injuries is irrelevent in this case, you (Fint) should know better than anyone here how many wierd accidents happen in a war zone.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by speeder
The people of Georgia definitely had the right to agree or disagree w/ his voting record in the senate, I was refering to the GOP ad by his opponent that transposed his face w/ that of Bin Laden and Saddam. That would have constituted a new low in dirty campaigning if the guy was a certified draft dodger, but to do that to someone who served honorably and was maimed so horribly, is beyond shameful. What, they couldn't just attack him on the issues??

And the exact circumstances of his injuries is irrelevent in this case, you (Fint) should know better than anyone here how many wierd accidents happen in a war zone.

Max is a nice guy..and a war hero in my opinion (but not with regard to his injuries..different actions). The fact that he is handicapped should not have anything to do with whether or not he is elected or his opponent's strategy or ads. I fail to understand why it is always brought up when one discusses his failure to be reelected. Lots of guys who served bravely in the military for a couple of years go on to be bank robbers, poor politicians, or just jerks in general. We tend to hold them responsible for their actions as we would any citizen. I have a box full of medals myself, but noone cuts me any slack because of them...and I would not expect them to.

They were attacking Cleland on the issues....the fact that he was weak on terrorism and weak on supporting the military. That just does not get one reelected in GA. Just because he served in the military does not innoculate he or Kerry from criticism of their lousy voting records in the military, intelligence, and terrorism areas.

[Moneyguy1]

Gee, Tech...Those articles were's even from the New York Times...

Hee Hee..

Fact: Max lost his limbs in the line of duty; doesn't matter if the grenade was from the other side or not

Fact: The Republicans savaged him by using tactics designed to elicit hate and anger

Opinion...Using Osama's picture to depict an opponent is underhanded, inhumane and downright nasty.

Like I have asked: Where are the ISSUES? If you disagree with an opponent (NOT, as some call the opposition, the "enemy"), DEBATE on the facts. Passion is acceptable, but not personal attacks. It was on the issues to compare Max to a terrorist? Speeder, there are those who would argue that anything is fair in a political race, even constant personal attacks. Sad philosophy of life, reeking of cynicism, devoid of civility, and a mockery of all the basic tenets of established major religions.

I have stronger words for people who defend that sort of "style", but I am too much of a gentleman to post them here. Suffice to say that their arguments are hollow and without substance, based upon a philosophy of attack rather than defend.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Opinion...Using Osama's picture to depict an opponent is underhanded, inhumane and downright nasty.

Can't disagree with you there... I mean, there would have to be some distinct parallels between two pwople to make it even slightly legitimate to put one's head on the other's shoulders.

[Mulholland]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Fact: The Republicans savaged him by using tactics designed to elicit hate and anger

I don't think hate and anger is unjustified if it is founded in facts and reason...If a politician is putting political favors in front of the good of the country in war-time, I think it would elicit justified indignation.

The below is hate and anger, without substance or equity...

"If this were Germany, we would call it fascism. If this were South Africa, we would call it racism" -- Jesse Jackson (regarding Republicans)

"I hope his wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do, of heart disease," -- Julianne Malveaux, USA Today columnist. regarding Clarence Thomas

"I hope he's not long for this world." Totenberg said she wanted him to die "in his job." -- Nina Totenberg, NPR, regarding Jerry Boykin's vies of Islam

"I think he ought to be worried about what's going on in the Good Lord's mind," she said of Senator Jesse Helms in 1995, "because if there is retributive justice, he'll get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it." -- Nina Totenberg of NPR

Then, of course, you have Al Gore calling Republicans "digital brown shirts", you have Democrats running adds saying "if you elect a Republican another black church is going to burn." You have an NAACP add visually linking the James Byrd dragging death to GW Bush...You have Democrats saying Republicans are "pushing grandma down the stairs."...You have Democrats saying Republicans want to starve children, horde money, pollute the environment, "roll back Civil Rights laws"...etc., etc.,etc.



Money, your high horse is nothing more than a Shetland pony...get off of it.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Fact: Max lost his limbs in the line of duty; doesn't matter if the grenade was from the other side or not

Fact: The Republicans savaged him by using tactics designed to elicit hate and anger

Opinion...Using Osama's picture to depict an opponent is underhanded, inhumane and downright nasty.

Like I have asked: Where are the ISSUES? If you disagree with an opponent (NOT, as some call the opposition, the "enemy"), DEBATE on the facts. Passion is acceptable, but not personal attacks. It was on the issues to compare Max to a terrorist? Speeder, there are those who would argue that anything is fair in a political race, even constant personal attacks. Sad philosophy of life, reeking of cynicism, devoid of civility, and a mockery of all the basic tenets of established major religions.

I have stronger words for people who defend that sort of "style", but I am too much of a gentleman to post them here. Suffice to say that their arguments are hollow and without substance, based upon a philosophy of attack rather than defend.

There is a big difference between an injury in battle and an accidental (doing something stupid )injury on a "beer run." By your standaerds, both myself and most folks that served in the military are also "war heroes"..LOL. At least Max himself doesn't see it as heroic in any way (unlike Kerry and his minor, self-inflicted wound). Dems would not either, except they were caught in their lies about both max and Kerry. At least Max told the truth.

There was never an implication that Max was a terrorist (that assertation is foolish); only that his failure to support the military or fight terrorism made us vulnerable. When our leaders fail to act against a clear and obvious evil threatening this nation, they are not guilty of the same, but certainly complicit.

[CamB]

Originally posted by Mulholland
The billion dollar man, the richest man in the Senate.

I'm tired of seeing this accusation. Prenuptial:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/homes.asp

Having a sugar mommy is alright by me.