Republicans lie to Mexicans/Hispanics

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by red-beard
The Repulicans put in a change to the House Bill to change the "Felony" to a "Misdemeaner". And all of the Democrats voted the amendment down.

So, the radio ad is the truth.

Yep...The only reason this isn't a mega media issue is because the Democrats opted for the "felony" language, Republicans did not. If it was the Republicans that pushed the felony language through, we would not hear the end of it. The uber-leftist special interests are pushing the perception that America and specifically Republicans are racist; despite the fact that Democrats pushed it through.

I think the left are hoping for a media whitewash, ala Civil Rights Act of 1964. If we recall it was the Democrats that filibustered the Civil Rights Act; types like Robert "KKK" Byrd and Al Gore Sr. For some odd reason these inconvenient facts are left out of the equation when the media is pushing the Democrats as the civil rights party.

[red-beard]

This is similar to the 'Bush is bringing back the draft" issue, where a NYC House Democrat was the actual sponsor.

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by teenerted1
then the white man would be the illegals.

Yeah and that woud be "just wrong"

[VINMAN]

Originally posted by pbs911
And do you honestly believe the Republicans / Democrats are not lying to Amercians? The truth is the Rep / Dems lie to everyone. There are equal opportunitiy liars and do not discriminate on the basiss of race, creed, or alienage.

The problem is, these "ILLEGALS"( I repeat ILLEGAL) are draining our systems, raising our taxes, overcrowding our schools, filling up our jails, flooding our hospitals, recieving free healthcare at our expense, overcrowding our neighborhoods.

Need I continue??

[Tobra]

Originally posted by teenerted1
then the white man would be the illegals.

No, it would not. There was a time when it mattered if you were in this country illegally. When MY Father's parents came here 100 years ago, fleeing Russian Georgia before the communists completely took over(Volga Germans, look it up), they moved to Canada first, saved for a year to afford him going into the US. He went to Nebraska, legally, worked and built a house for his family with his own hands, and brought his wife, the child who did not die of typhoid in Canada to the US legally. Oh yeah, they also learned English and would beat the hell out of any of their kids if they heard they had been speaking German on the street. During WWII, my grandmother was extremely proud of the 4 stars in the front window, all 4 safely returned fortunately

All the people I know who are the most furious about illegal immigration are all my legal immigrant friends. My best friends wife is from Vera Cruz. Came here legally, did not speak any English, learned English in a year, fluent withing 2-3 years.

Our politicians have been sell outs for many years, all of them.

[pbs911]

...

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by pbs911

You would soon find out that the illegals only consume a fraction of these and the majority are actually used by white Amercians.

Yes, know as retirees. On Social Security and Medicare.

As for the usual public benefits of welfare, food-stamps and medicade - wait till the amnesty with citizenship kicks in. Then comes sponsorship of parents, wives and kids.

Then when we retire - our benefits will be split with millions of new-comers in low productivity jobs. You think SS is underfunded now, you aint seen nothing yet..

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by gaijindabe
Yes, know as retirees. On Social Security and Medicare.

As for the usual public benefits of welfare, food-stamps and medicade - wait till the amnesty with citizenship kicks in. Then comes sponsorship of parents, wives and kids.

Then when we retire - our benefits will be split with millions of new-comers in low productivity jobs. You think SS is underfunded now, you aint seen nothing yet..

Doesnt Amnesty make them a "Tax paying" workforce?

If we keep them undocumented, wouldnt be just shooting ourselfs in the foot by not having them contribute to the system?

What about all those people that use fake documents and contribute in taxes but never get credit for it? Where does that money go?

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by pbs911
Half-truth. The "illegal" argument is very week and ignors the real issues.

Personally I would be for eliminating ALL public benefits to everyone. You would soon find out that the illegals only consume a fraction of these and the majority are actually used by white Amercians. My point is, illegals are NOT the problem with our government. The problem is out government.

Well, you don't think that turning every street sign into bilingual, every ballot, every public document printed in spanish, all schools now have to have interpreters and text books printed in spanish. In FL. we are already paying the price.

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by Racerbvd
Well, you don't think that turning every street sign into bilingual, every ballot, every public document printed in spanish, all schools now have to have interpreters and text books printed in spanish. In FL. we are already paying the price.

Was that a question or a statement?

I'll asume it's a stament, if it is, I like to know how making documents bilingual is concidered paying the price or with having intepreters and book in spanish?

Wouldnt an uneducated society be more costly? Not to mention less prductive to the country they are in?

[Nathans_Dad]

Yes, which is why immigrants should learn the language of the land they immigrate to. ENGLISH.

I still don't get that. If I moved to Japan I would expect to have to learn Japanese and I sure wouldn't expect the Japanese government to force all Japanese to learn my language.

[1fastredsc]

Originally posted by bigrubberjeep
Was that a question or a statement?

I'll asume it's a stament, if it is, I like to know how making documents bilingual is concidered paying the price or with having intepreters and book in spanish?

Wouldnt an uneducated society be more costly? Not to mention less prductive to the country they are in?

I think what he meant is that it's costly to our society having to give in to the inevitable with illegal aliens. It's one thing to come to this country legally AND learn the language. It's a slap in the face when your here illegally and your too lazy to speak the language.

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Yes, which is why immigrants should learn the language of the land they immigrate to. ENGLISH.

I still don't get that. If I moved to Japan I would expect to have to learn Japanese and I sure wouldn't expect the Japanese government to force all Japanese to learn my language.

OK I agree, but if we take away the benefits of "free school" wouldnt the be counterrpoductive to the whole point here?

It's a process, they need to go to school and start with bilingual instruction in order to get to being fluent in English.

Now in regards to your comment, show me where America is "Forcing" you to learn spanish?

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by bigrubberjeep
Doesnt Amnesty make them a "Tax paying" workforce?

If we keep them undocumented, wouldnt be just shooting ourselfs in the foot by not having them contribute to the system?

What about all those people that use fake documents and contribute in taxes but never get credit for it? Where does that money go?

#1 - no. The bar for personal income taxes is pretty high. If you have kids and dont make much you can get "earned income" - that is, the govenment pays you. Pleanty of Americans working under the radar as well, dont think all are going to step up.

#2 - no. Illegals pay sales taxes. And they will probably save and go home like many, many immigrants did before the modern welfare state. Amnesty and citizenship and then sponorship of family will only add to the socal welfare burden.

#3 It goes into the big pot. And does not begin to cover the healthcare, schools and all the other socal services received by illegals.

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by bigrubberjeep
Was that a question or a statement?

I'll asume it's a stament, if it is, I like to know how making documents bilingual is concidered paying the price or with having intepreters and book in spanish?

Wouldnt an uneducated society be more costly? Not to mention less prductive to the country they are in?

Well, we wouldn't have that problem if we send them home. Why should I and every other legal tax payer be burdened with the cost people who are here illegally. Trespassers will be Shot!

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by 1fastredsc
I think what he meant is that it's costly to our society having to give in to the inevitable with illegal aliens. It's one thing to come to this country legally AND learn the language. It's a slap in the face when your here illegally and your too lazy to speak the language.

I understand what your saying, I dislike lazy people too, but I don't beleive lazynes discriminates based on your citizenship status. Now to the core of your point, I trully beleive and know may illegals that want to "make it" and try day in and day out to learn the language in order to "make it", however many of them get stuck working 60 hour weeks at factory's being underpaid and forget all about school. Reason they take factory jobs is because these places are the only ones that will hire them. All of their peers speak spanish only so the oprtunity to even practive the language is gone.

Now if they were documented, the oportunity's for a good jobs would be increased as well as the oportunity to go to school in order to get all those new jobs they now qualify for.

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by gaijindabe
#1 - no. The bar for personal income taxes is pretty high. If you have kids and dont make much you can get "earned income" - that is, the govenment pays you. Pleanty of Americans working under the radar as well, dont think all are going to step up.

#2 - no. Illegals pay sales taxes. And they will probably save and go home like many, many immigrants did before the modern welfare state. Amnesty and citizenship and then sponorship of family will only add to the socal welfare burden.

#3 It goes into the big pot. And does not begin to cover the healthcare, schools and all the other socal services received by illegals.

#1 Well that's worst case senario, and even then, there is still taxes being generated, what you refer to is not an "exempt" status, all it is is a tax break. On all the other senarios it would be a win win situation.

#2 They wouldnt go home if they were legal

#3 It doesnt cover it? Do you have any figures to back up your statement?

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by Racerbvd
Well, we wouldn't have that problem if we send them home. Why should I and every other legal tax payer be burdened with the cost people who are here illegally. Trespassers will be Shot!

Your solution is unreal, as long as there is hunger elsewhere and oprtunity for survival here the issues will not go away. If you don't want to be burdened with the cost, make them legal so they can at least contribute. Your trespassers will be shot attitude only proves you lack of problem solving skills.

[techweenie]

Well, first of all, this thread was about politicians pandering to Spanish speakers.

I thought there were already enough anti-immigrant threads. Guess not.

So here's the deal. A large percentage of businesses depend on "illegals" and are never punished for hiring them. There is always work here for reliable, low-wage workers, and so the workers come.

I don't care how many radio and TV pundits making $500K and up say the "illegals take work away from willing Americans." They don't. Americans want higher-paying, cushier jobs. Illegals will take the hard, unglamorous work and not expect to be made 'manager' in two weeks. And they show up. And they aren't druggies and drama queens.

[speeder]

Originally posted by techweenie
Well, first of all, this thread was about politicians pandering to Spanish speakers.

I thought there were already enough anti-immigrant threads. Guess not.

So here's the deal. A large percentage of businesses depend on "illegals" and are never punished for hiring them. There is always work here for reliable, low-wage workers, and so the workers come.

I don't care how many radio and TV pundits making $500K and up say the "illegals take work away from willing Americans." They don't. Americans want higher-paying, cushier jobs. Illegals will take the hard, unglamorous work and not expect to be made 'manager' in two weeks. And they show up. And they aren't druggies and drama queens.

There has never been an "anti-immigrant" thread here, and I have never met anyone who is against legal immigration. My ancestors, as well as yours and everyone else here were immigrants. Is there some mental tic that prevents you from calling illegal immigrants what they are?? How about let's call them "undocumented", it doesn't sound as bad and suggests that their status is a mere technicality, some document that they do not possess.

The document that they do not possess, or are they going to possess in the future, is a visa that would allow them to visit or live in this country. I guess either you believe in the fundamental right of all countries to control their border and who they allow in, or you do not. I do and clearly you do not. There is no less blunt way to put it, so please do not use dishonest or disingenious language when discussing it. It's insulting.

I agree that the American (or any other) businessman will exploit cheap labor sources, it's human nature. We need to cut off their supply and make them sink or swim in the real world. Change the rules if necessary, but an open border is not the solution. We could have all the legal immigration that we want and it would be a lot fairer if not for massive Mexican illegal immigration.

As to your final statement about the non-existence of actual American blue-collar workers whose wages and job opportunities are hurt by uncontrolled illegal immigration, where do you get the balls to lie like that? Do you think that the only one reading this is a bunch of fat, soft ass people in cubicles or day-trading on their computers? OK, you don't have to answer that.

The fact of the matter is that while it is true that hispanics are mostly good, hardworking people that are overwhelmingly blue-collar, there are millions and millions of US citizens who are as well and have a right to work and live in a country that enforces immigration law. I work in a blue-collar trade and can tell you absolutely, 100% that my wages and amount of work available are negatively affected by the sheer numbers of people here looking for similar work. You do not need to be Stephen Hawkings to do the ******* math. I don't know what you actually do for a living, but you sound like someone with a tenuous grasp on reality who listens to politically charged radio programs and assumes that others get their info the same way, as opposed to empirically from living in the real world. You even parrot the tired talking points of the pro-illegal immigration forces, who are almost completely self-interested only. I care about my own welfare, but also the welfare of my country above the needs of Mexico.