What happened to the Mulholland "King of the Hill" RSR?

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

awesome historical pics.
you guys have had some great times!

There are still good times to be had. It has always been fun to continuously chase speed. For the Canyon running, it wasn't even about who had the fastest car. When someone did something new, it was super interesting to see or assist to get better results. The personal best time runs took the competitiveness out of it to a great extend, because you were running against what you had done previously.

Back in the old days, everyone was mostly aftermarket shocks, sway bars, and intake/carb swaps, and headers or aftermarket mufflers was the extent of what was run. Very few cars had extra link suspensions, with solid or delrin, concentrically drilled bushings, or spherical/heim joints and bearings,, and such. The tires weren't near what you can get in the modern. We were eventually mounting racetrack rubber and sneaking the cars up on real road racing tires, or autocross BFG's or Hoosiers etc. We even used to course walk The Raceway with brooms to clean the shoulders, but never assisted to clean the Mulholland house. Each car and driver was responsible for their share of turn prep on home turf.

I remember the trends, such as the first time someone mounted H4 lights, or when nitrogen filled tires was what we all thought would get us better times. A lot of us went thru the stage of shedding weight on our cars, and on and on. Sometimes being a little ignorant as to what affect that would have, requiring shock setting changes, etc.. I remember it getting to the technical point, that your brake adjust valve setting was tuned as to gas tank level, a minimum tank of fuel or for some run a 1/2 tank of fuel to weight the rear or whatever the thought was! We mostly evolved into heavy spring advocates and used sway bars as fine tuning devices for inducing oversteer or understeer or getting to neutral. I am a notorious late apexer and like to balance late braking clear into the turn entry kind of runner.

Going to Mulholland was like a vacation trip. We loaded up the jacks and spare parts and set off for adventures in a land far far away! (35 miles). The death of Mulholland's prime years was coming and already over in those late early to mid 80's. The same was happening to our beloved Whittier Boulevard hot rod cruising street (same fate as Van Nuys Boulevard). It just seemed like being able to be a racer was suddenly being killed off, I have a ticket collection somewhere that is second to none. They would just light up your A$$ to hassle you! I think the expansion of Suburbia ultimately killed it!

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by Banning

Great stories and photos, thanks for posting.

And thank you also for the info on Dick's Service, a great man who will be missed.

Imitation of you guys in those Mulholland articles and visiting I hope you view it as the highest form of compliment! No! Thank you to you guys!

I had always thought of myself as an acquaintance of Dick Guldstrand since 1967, and my Father since the later 1950's. When I came into his shop, he correlated my shopping and buying as related to crashing or blowing something up on the car. Thus it became a running joke between us, as soon as I walked into his business, his standard question to me was, "how bad did you hurt it, this time?"

I think he knew he wasn't much longer in this world, His shop guy related that after my last visit, Dick just raved about our long term ""Friendship" not acquaintance, but much appreciated friendship, which was the coolest to hear. Because he was a famous guy, I guess I just always viewed him as an Elder or him as a Legend. So it is great to be able to have learned that he viewed me as such.

We at times have had some of the quickest true streetable "road" handling C2/C3 Corvettes in Socal and the Porsche cars in the family are no slouches! We always got our Stickers for free, window tints free, but I personally don't like my cars to be rolling advertising displays (unlike my Father). so I have never stickered up the rides. And don't give me someones part with their name or logo, because I will grind it off! And at times, we got big discounts or sometimes free stuff to try out on the cars. We got the very first Centerforce Dual Friction clutch in the history of that product from old man Hayes and crew, the prototype unit to test and report back on.

It was a pain to post all of those pictures, I haven't been a photographing type guy, so I had to get shots from Family and friends mostly. But maybe this time I will leave the posts intact up and finish the course run description for this great thread!

[Ajrothm]

Hi everyone,

After lurking on this thread for a month, making my way through it, word by word, page by page, absorbing this amazing story, I finally made it to present day, after 340 pages... Definitely the most entertaining thread I have ever seen on my 17 years of message board/forum participating...(on about 20 different forums at that).... I find myself sitting on the worlds biggest cliff hanger (no pun intended)... Wondering about the great cars/characters in this story.

I went through every video, link, bought Hall's memoir, and waiting for Banning's updated Mulholland book to come out, I just have to know if there is any updates on the cars/people/book? I'm on the edge of my seat with anticipation....as I have been pulled into this story, the lure and all things Mulholland.

Besides the awesome story that has been told here, my facination with this topic was by accident really.

First off, I'm from Houston Tx, big into fast cars, fast sport bikes etc etc, and always heard/read about Mulholland from the bike scene. So when I got married back in 2013, we honeymooned in California, rented a car, drove down the coast and I HAD to go to Mulholland and the Rock Store, it's a right of passage in the sport bike world. So we did, ran the whole snake, hung out at the look out, met some locals, etc, had a blast. Then we take a Hollywood bus tour and they take us on a narrow, windy road they called Mulholland. At this point I am confused because I KNEW I drove up Mulholland myself and it was way north west of where we were...but anyway, the tour guide took us to what he called Dead Mans road, then through some curves and up to look at some celebrity houses..

Fast forward 2 years, after another trip to California and pass through Mulhollland in another rental car, I stumble across something about the Mulholland Porsche, start reading up about the car, the story, the roads...(as I came to find out there is a Mulholland Highway --the one I drove, and a Mulholland drive-- the famous one)...

So as I sit here thinking how cool that it was that I intervertently made a pass through the race course in a bus, having absolutely no idea about the history/legend of the very road that we went down, I'm totally enamored with it now..

I hope we see some updates from Banning on his targa project, and updates from the rest of the cast in this story...

Pretty amazing tale from an outsider looking in who was completely oblivious to the Mulholland legend and now can't stop thinking about it...

Both of my experiences on Mulholland highway (the snake) were a complete blast, even though I was in rental cars, I still ripped it up as best as I could (I even had my wife video it with her phone for my YouTube channel), but I feel the compulsion to come back again and drive the "real" Mulholland.. Maybe in a couple years, I'll be back, and be lucky enough to run into some of you guys up there ...(not literally run into you but...)

[Ajrothm]

Here in south Texas, we don't have much for curvy roads, so we do a lot of straight line stuff here.. But back in July, my wife and I drove my 71' cross country to the Vette Assembly plant in BG Kentucky, then on to the famous Tail of the Dragon in Deals Gap NC. We spent a few nights up in a cottage in the mountains right on the tail. I ran the tail 4 times, it's 318 turns in 11 miles....it's a blast. The weight and crappy stock brakes really showed in the tight stuff but, I gave it a good shot. Here is some pics:









Coming in too hot and late on the brakes... Lol

[Noah930]

Maybe the allure of Mul is still alive. I drove through last week to see some camouflaged mini-SUV (with all the white and black swirls used by manuf these days) with a photo crew at Mid Pits. Odd. Who does a photoshoot with a camouflaged pre-production car?

Beautiful 'Vette, BTW.

[ChrislovesMul]

I think the spirit of Mulholland is still very much alive and well. I'm 27 and can't frequent the hill as much due to a full time job, but having said that:

After launching Mulholland Magazine's instagram page I get about 2-3 offers per week of someone trying to challenge me to a race on "The Snake." It's actually got to the point where several people have had to be blocked just to keep the page and discussions on track.

When it comes to people running the hill, there is no shortage of those who claim to be the fastest which after talking to Chris is really no different from back when you all ran the old race course.

After being invited to co drive with John Morton, Steve Nichols and Steve O
'Hara for a few races in their 240Z my need to prove myself on Mul has diminished, but still building a car around 2200lbs with 220-250whp to have fun with at night. It's still alive and well guys, it's just changing and become more commercialized.

I think the faces and the cars change, but it's still the same thing. Everything in life is cyclical. Banning to me will always run the hill in my mind and epitomize what it means to be a Mulholland racer.

[MidnightCircuit]

Originally Posted by ChrislovesMul

I think the spirit of Mulholland is still very much alive and well. I'm 27 and can't frequent the hill as much due to a full time job, but having said that:

After launching Mulholland Magazine's instagram page I get about 2-3 offers per week of someone trying to challenge me to a race on "The Snake." It's actually got to the point where several people have had to be blocked just to keep the page and discussions on track.

When it comes to people running the hill, there is no shortage of those who claim to be the fastest which after talking to Chris is really no different from back when you all ran the old race course.

After being invited to co drive with John Morton, Steve Nichols and Steve O
'Hara for a few races in their 240Z my need to prove myself on Mul has diminished, but still building a car around 2200lbs with 220-250whp to have fun with at night. It's still alive and well guys, it's just changing and become more commercialized.

I think the faces and the cars change, but it's still the same thing. Everything in life is cyclical. Banning to me will always run the hill in my mind and epitomize what it means to be a Mulholland racer.

Because you always run that mouth

[ChrislovesMul]

A civic kept up with me using 2 lanes, while my Miata was on corded tires running on 3 cylinders with a fuel issue and suspension that we have now found had about 2 inches of travel. I made a post about staying in your lane for safety reasons. He has refused to run on a tighter more technical road and stay in his lane, refused to run in the same car and refused to run for a cash offer after saying I could "bring anything to the track." That's something to brag about...

I've just come off co driving with John Morton and Steve Nichols at Las Vegas Motor Speedway, set the fastest time of the entire event by a half second and was good enough to be asked back to pilot their car at Laguna Seca for another 6 hour endurance race. Building a car for a shot at SCCA nationals and was asked to drive an RX7 for Tri Point Engineering to take a shot at winning a class in World Time Attack.

As previously stated...Mulholland is alive and well.

[Heel n Toe]

You giving a clinic on how to do your nails, brah?

[ChrislovesMul]

Heres a video I found a long time ago, can't remember where. Shows a car going absolutely mental on the old race course in the rain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh64VRFjAeQ

[rbr]

That is between Coldwater and Benedict, westbound, not the old racecourse. He passes my driveway on left at 0:46. Cool to watch especially knowing the road so well.

[Ajrothm]

Damn that's a driving MOFO right there... A little wreckless but he made quick work of that road.

I'd love to see him on the actual race course.

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by ChrislovesMul

Heres a video I found a long time ago, can't remember where. Shows a car going absolutely mental on the old race course in the rain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh64VRFjAeQ

That was exactly how it was!!!!!!!!!!!

The horsepower cars tended to get a little tail happy unless on something better than street tires and the short wheel based small engine ones ran the road with a little more poise, but couldn't get back up to speed or around an obstacles car as quick sometimes, if they fell off in momentum.

I would like to think that we were all better than this run (cleaner apexes, more track memory of the turns, more knowledge of an upcoming passing zone), but I have to admit in my adult teen years and thru the age of the twenties, I probably looked more like this on a run.

The heading down the escape road, that would be the M-O if a Cop was chasing you! You would make risky passes, banzai! To escape, but this guy in the video on adrenaline wasn't turning it off at the end of course. The road was wet also! He had more balls than me, because I would never go 10/10th if wet and blast an escape road taking cars unless it was going to keep me out of jail.

Naturally it appears to be quicker in the dark, because the blackness was like a tunnel! But then we all had great eyesight and super quick reflexes back at that age. I would take a way more center line crossing run thru than this guy, but leave room to go back to my lane. On the old course, if you dropped the fear of running in the opposing traffic lane, then you picked up substantial time over the ones that just weren't comfortable with that habit. Turn ending view in this video was interesting, as he was in a corner with tires tensed up, but saw that he could many times cut the apex tighter upon seeing the line was all clear. Most rookies would hold it steady around the radius of the corner, but he chopped down on the line to apex for shortening his lines and speed for acceleration, so some of the raggityness of his run had to be limited visually by the nite and it looked like a really dark one without star light!

And even the oncoming headlights can really mess you up on that old road, it takes a lot of practice to get used to the estimated distances of an oncoming vehicle. Sometimes you had to think and study someone coming for a split second longer as to whether the headlights coming, were going left or right or straight on at you to get a sense as to where ahead they actually were on the road, so you knew how much time you had on the approach. And God forbid that it was the Law! Most of the Police had auxillary lights (like fog lights) and even there regular beams were a little more than DOT usually. Most times when Dinosaurs roamed the planet, as radar detectors were designed by cavemen, the intensity of the police cars lights was the best clue of a Cop car.

There was a lot of traffic in that video?, so that had to be more in the modern 80s, because in the 1970's we could get a whole course run, without a civilian encounter! I think his passes even though not appearing to be smooth, were what had to be done. True if you could take the cars in a pass without breaking pace or rhythm, that was always nice, but where the encounter occurs sometimes prevented that. I would try to pass so I didn't scare the complete hell out of someone, and would go off pace slightly with plans for timing at a passing spot and so as to get on the gas and take the car at speed, instead of on acceleration from their rear end.

I liked the esses, and driving straight on thru! We have two sections similar on my beloved Turnbull Canyon, where that is the proper way to take them. The complication with one se at my own home canyon, is the big A$$ dip in the road will flip your car at high speed, if you aren't off of the thought to be apex. You dive that apex and you will unbalance and who knows where you will end up!

I do want to study this video more! He by no means was a rookie. Some of the characteristics of that road going west were similar to the Race Course. The beginning after the initial turns with slight elevation that straight was similar and you did have a left jog of a turn prior to Grandstand, then you had the longer chute and hard braking down to the left bend, etc.. I would have needed to get out my road notes to see if that was between Coldwater and Benedict if we didn't have a local expert to confirm that! Thanks local expert and resident for helping us place the location of the video! Cool!

I would say this guy could drive. It was a respectful showing and run, worthy of video, and I am really glad it was preserved. None of us had cameras back then, let alone video equipment. If we all had Go Pros back then, we would all be in jail still!

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by Ajrothm

Here in south Texas, we don't have much for curvy roads, so we do a lot of straight line stuff here.. But back in July, my wife and I drove my 71' cross country to the Vette Assembly plant in BG Kentucky, then on to the famous Tail of the Dragon in Deals Gap NC. We spent a few nights up in a cottage in the mountains right on the tail. I ran the tail 4 times, it's 318 turns in 11 miles....it's a blast. The weight and crappy stock brakes really showed in the tight stuff but, I gave it a good shot. Here is some pics:









Coming in too hot and late on the brakes... Lol

Your hood is custom and a lot taller than stock, I couldn't tell if you have it cut open to vent the radiator air out prior to the engine and as to whether your induction is closed off to the engine heat and air circulation would be interesting to know. I am curious about the windshield base and as to whether you get the pressure benefit there, for the cowl induction. A 10.59 at 127 is quick and fast The ETsMPH at the end of the 1/4 is off! So you were spinning tires a good part of the way down on that run or your speed was locked up at the top of your redline based on the gearing. Our small block turns a street tired 11.3 @ 127 and with slicks we pick up ET into the 10 seconds, and the taller slicks carries it out to 132mph! But way more rubber than you, but not quite your HP. I don't think I would want to quarter mile your Corvette, because it would be a wild ride with the tires! And it could use more suspension for cornering, but then it is such a beautiful looking car that that would ruin some of it's street-ability and make it more of a chore to drive and less fun, plus your tire sizing is more aesthetically pleasing. A big block is nose heavy, and under braking it did not look like it dived too dramatically, so you have heavier spring rates and shock settings.

Thanks for sharing your really cool Corvette!

[merbesfield]

Originally Posted by ChrislovesMul

Heres a video I found a long time ago, can't remember where. Shows a car going absolutely mental on the old race course in the rain:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh64VRFjAeQ

No offense, but that guy seems like a really crappy driver. Or drunk. Or both. Looks like he is lucky to have not killed himself or others. I'm no saint, but he was all over the road! WTF.

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by merbesfield

No offense, but that guy seems like a really crappy driver. Or drunk. Or both. Looks like he is lucky to have not killed himself or others. I'm no saint, but he was all over the road! WTF.

But that is a higher HP car than most run on that road and my guess from engine sound and nose profile would be a Fox body Mustang with the newer rounder nose (it definitely is a short hood V8 and not a Vette, Camaro, or older Mustang- because I have had at least one or more of each of those!), and considering he is more than likely on street tires, not 100% memorized on the road, the road was getting damp, I could see that he out ran his headlights and or sometimes just wasn't sure where the road went, the tires were spinning and you could hear it in the rpms a couple of times, then they would break and it was playing havoc with his concentration on shifting, and then he over shot a number of his braking zones, but the show must go on, he was making a video and was bound and determined to get his run down for history. And PS no animals or women and children were injured in the filming of his run, and I am OK with that, etc..

I would say that if this run bothers anyone, then there were far worse ones going on back then, than the one that you just watched. Trust me! I led and followed some of those cliff hangers!

The best thing I did for my cars, were the installation of H4's (non high beamed glassed units- because I like some dispersement of beam for my 150 watt bulbs and so as not to light up just a galaxy far far away) and those are pure racing units from either Cibie or Marchals pointed straight and the regular headlights pointed outward to pick up the finite detail of where the apex was, when I arrived there! Instantly on his first brake check, I knew he wasn't well memorized on the road! In some sections, you could see he knew the road well, and the speed really picked up and the lines were good, but he got completely lost at least 2-1/2 times and needed maybe a modern GPS to find his path again. It is a lot of fun to analyze that cool run! He was having a lot of fun! I had a lot of fun just watching it!!!!!!!

[Kannif]

May have to give the book a look over at a Barnes & Nobles first.

[ad93]

Originally Posted by TCracingCA

But that is a higher HP car than most run on that road and my guess from engine sound and nose profile would be a Fox body Mustang with the newer rounder nose (it definitely is a short hood V8 and not a Vette, Camaro, or older Mustang- because I have had at least one or more of each of those!)

The car in this video is an E92 BMW M3. The headlights are xenon (eliminates fox body theory) and the engine has the characteristic high revving sound that is unique to the E90 series BMW M cars.

I'd also like to add that this guy is too reckless.

[slodave]

1) It's Mulholland Drive, not highway.

2) It's not raining, he hit the windshield wiper stalk on accident. The wet patches are from sprinklers or moisture coming out of the mountain.

3) The video is modern. Easy to tell by the green/black/blue trashcans...

And yes, it's a E92 M3. You can see the heat vent from time to time.

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by ad93

The car in this video is an E92 BMW M3. The headlights are xenon (eliminates fox body theory) and the engine has the characteristic high revving sound that is unique to the E90 series BMW M cars.

I'd also like to add that this guy is too reckless.

I watched it three times (one for enjoyment, once to figure out where the run was, and last for the possible type of car!) The internet is great to get more eyes on it!

I don't know the most modern cars, but it being a BMW also explains some of the bad handling! I don't see too many that I would want to take up a road like that, and I will take the M3 off of my list!

By thinking it was a Fox Mustang because I saw some of those with vents in the hood and the car in the video appears to me, to have a cowl hump? -> which I have never recalled seeing on a BMW, and if it was a Mustang that was excuse enough for the run being raggity, but if the BMW crowd wants to take claim,you all got it! It too me, did sound like a small displacement V8, I better get my old age hearing re-checked! It did fool me!

He is going west and bails at Deep Canyon Drive!

PS it is a highway now!!!! What originally made the race track portion unique, was most of the population to the west went out that way off of ColdwaterCanyon especially that late at night never really needed to cross over to use Laurel Canyon and on the east side (the Laurel Canyon people), those home Owners never generally needed to go that way back toward Coldwater! So it was kind of an isolated little section! And that was the attraction, even though there are more interesting sections (my opinion) like this one shown in the video!