What happened to the Mulholland "King of the Hill" RSR?

[DJtheDJ]

I recall way back there was discussion of Lolas. I saw this one a couple weeks ago at the Jefferson 500 race at Summit Point. It was DESTROYING everyone!

[_e_w_]

This marker is located east of the course.

[ocinn]

Originally Posted by _e_w_

FYI, I am in the camp that there are unfortunately way too many people along Mulholland, which means spirited driving needs to be done elsewhere. Maybe the LAPD should think about opening up their training facility off the 5 and host some driving classes and/or competitions. I live on Coldwater and the amount of accidents on this street is insane. I've seen some bad ones, a few months ago something went into the side of an apartment building. Lived on Coldwater for 6 years and people have always driven fast, but the amount of speeders and accidents seems to have picked up over the last couple of years.

Well, I'll offer this as some insight.

In recent years I have never seen CHP on mulholland. LAPD/Sheriff's will only be on the road if they are answering to a house call, etc.... They do not patrol.

Park Rangers do patrol the road, but they disperse after midnight. I have never seen a patrol car after 1am.

Any rangers/cops that I do see don't bother to chase anymore. it's not worth the danger or risk for them to try. They leave the real fast racers alone. It's much easier and more effective for them to go after reckless drivers who speed at earlier hours of the night where they can dole out tickets in masse, versus waiting at 2am for a lone racer to drive by with a 10% chance that they would pull over/be able to catch them.

They can't even turn the lights on until the driver is already out of sight in most places, so then it gets into plausible deniability that a driver would even see them.

GMR does have fast cops, and they will chase and catch 90% of the casual drivers driving the road. That road is unique in that sense.

LAPD has pulled up on us parked at skyline and the officers said "those things must be an absolute riot up here later at night" and we all laughed. Most officers who know the road that I've talked to are cool, and don't really care as long as spirited driving isn't being done on the populated sections during times where commuter traffic fills it.

Apart from the police thing:

Most of the accidents on any canyon road (with GMR being the notable exception), are due to commuter drivers making mistakes (alcohol, losing control, distracted driving, not knowing the limits, not knowing the road, tire failure etc...) and not from racing accidents.

Even though these crashes have absolutely nothing to do with us, they still increase awareness of driving on the road. Police patrol more often, residents are on watch for reckless driving, etc.... It's unfortunate, but true.

Like I said there are two camps of people racing mulholland. the daddy's money kids who show up at 8, make a bunch of noise, don't really go anywhere to fast and then go to sleep at 10, and the real drivers who start to appear around midnight.

And lastly- relating to the comment about miatas in the slalom. lol. that must have been from before there was really any aftermarket development into those cars. monster miatas suck.

Look at the 2019 SCCA Solo Nats Results. The fastest CAM-T (classic American muscle) cars are still 3s off pace of the street touring miatas (only shocks, one sway bar, 15x8 wheels) on a 60s course. The fastest C-Prepared (Hoosier/aero/gutted, trailered racecars) classic American muscle cars are again, 3s off pace of 99-00 miatas in C-Street-Prepared (still a bonafide streetcar, my car was a csp Miata spec build). I use CAM cars as a reference since these are the best built and tuned versions of the cars that were popular on mulholland back in the day.

if y'all want to see the video of my grandstands to skyline run, let me know I'll upload it to youtube or something.

[_e_w_]

Originally Posted by TCracingCA

One Officer came over to our C3 and said we would really hate to have to chase your car down, my Father's reply, "In what universe, do you think you could!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDoO2DnlxYs

[TCracingCA]

Here is one of our fast running Corvette group guys and personal friend Dick Takashima driving his at an LAPD testing center, is how I have my picture labeled? He would run it on the County roads, but it did evolve to this level of just Slalom event participation mostly, but still street registered, and his wing was a hit on the 134 & 405. This car had spend time on Mulholland, but he wasn't hanging out in the middle of the night at Grandstand.

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by ocinn

Well, I'll offer this as some insight.

In recent years I have never seen CHP on mulholland. LAPD/Sheriff's will only be on the road if they are answering to a house call, etc.... They do not patrol.

Park Rangers do patrol the road, but they disperse after midnight. I have never seen a patrol car after 1am.

Any rangers/cops that I do see don't bother to chase anymore. it's not worth the danger or risk for them to try. They leave the real fast racers alone. It's much easier and more effective for them to go after reckless drivers who speed at earlier hours of the night where they can dole out tickets in masse, versus waiting at 2am for a lone racer to drive by with a 10% chance that they would pull over/be able to catch them.

They can't even turn the lights on until the driver is already out of sight in most places, so then it gets into plausible deniability that a driver would even see them.

GMR does have fast cops, and they will chase and catch 90% of the casual drivers driving the road. That road is unique in that sense.

LAPD has pulled up on us parked at skyline and the officers said "those things must be an absolute riot up here later at night" and we all laughed. Most officers who know the road that I've talked to are cool, and don't really care as long as spirited driving isn't being done on the populated sections during times where commuter traffic fills it.

Apart from the police thing:

Most of the accidents on any canyon road (with GMR being the notable exception), are due to commuter drivers making mistakes (alcohol, losing control, distracted driving, not knowing the limits, not knowing the road, tire failure etc...) and not from racing accidents.

Even though these crashes have absolutely nothing to do with us, they still increase awareness of driving on the road. Police patrol more often, residents are on watch for reckless driving, etc.... It's unfortunate, but true.

Like I said there are two camps of people racing mulholland. the daddy's money kids who show up at 8, make a bunch of noise, don't really go anywhere to fast and then go to sleep at 10, and the real drivers who start to appear around midnight.

And lastly- relating to the comment about miatas in the slalom. lol. that must have been from before there was really any aftermarket development into those cars. monster miatas suck.

Look at the 2019 SCCA Solo Nats Results. The fastest CAM-T (classic American muscle) cars are still 3s off pace of the street touring miatas (only shocks, one sway bar, 15x8 wheels) on a 60s course. The fastest C-Prepared (Hoosier/aero/gutted, trailered racecars) classic American muscle cars are again, 3s off pace of 99-00 miatas in C-Street-Prepared (still a bonafide streetcar, my car was a csp Miata spec build). I use CAM cars as a reference since these are the best built and tuned versions of the cars that were popular on mulholland back in the day.

if y'all want to see the video of my grandstands to skyline run, let me know I'll upload it to youtube or something.

Our Blue car ran in BSP, but they forced it into Mod class. The 911S was deemed illegal in its Canyon Running format shown for CSP, and forced up into Mod class. Curious as haven't done Slalom in quite awhile, as it isn't my preferred venue, but if any 911 Porsches still running?
A modern Miata was in front of me the other day and I was curious on its quickness, as it looked modified, but I couldn't urge him to do anything, even though he had race looking mods and roll bar.
Thank God you aren't a Hellcat guy, or Shelby Mustang. Those things when punched, they make a whole lot of noise, but just kind of sit there, and dont go anywhere until some momentum is gained. They are so damn heavy, near a thousand pounds heavier than our two fastest Corvettes.
I might go check out a slalom, just to get some sunshine, at El Toro or someplace. We are building two open wheel racers actually, for that type of venue, track days, or open libre Vintage racing, but this Covid crap kind of sidelined the projects along with the Politics to shift focus to one other hobby. The 1969 Beach that I showed, getting a 2.5 liter 911 engine being done by my Porsche loving Brother, and I am shifted to scratch building another one using that cars spare older ragged body, using bottom square tubing, upper round tubing, some of my old Porsche 914 parts for front brakes and suspension, gauges, steering rack, transmission, etc. Into a single seater open wheeler, and attempting to adopt my former 2110cc Ghias engine, destroked to 2 liter with a Scat 78mm crank to hit class, switching to dual 45 Dellortos into it mid-engine. I am planning to totally camouflage the VW mill, with Porsche 550 spyder type shroud, Porsche emblems onto the VW valve covers, etc. Those two cars we will be pursuing FTD of the entire event at the Autocrosses.
My one brother with the Slalom Truck, the slalom Gen 4 Camaro, and the 67 Mini Cooper 1275S, we aren't talking, but he was taking his Truck occasionally out to the SCCA events. Maybe you guys will run across him and the truck. That would be fun.

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by DJtheDJ

I recall way back there was discussion of Lolas. I saw this one a couple weeks ago at the Jefferson 500 race at Summit Point. It was DESTROYING everyone!

That would be a Mulholland dream car, back in the day. Eddie Hill the racer used a Lola T-70 as his street car, and they did an article I have on him, and I think it covered Mulholland. It was mentioned in this thread, as he did play on Mulholland. The kids in the Car Clubs got the road the fame (first article I remember was prior to me getting a Drivers License in 1974) or young adults like famed Banning and the famed hero RSR that we all loved here, and others who contributed in this thread (who inspired me to mimic them in our own local hills), then you had the well off even older adult guys, that Road thru with their toys.

[Jeff Hail]

Originally Posted by _e_w_

This marker is located east of the course.

Always a twist on this thread. I used to hunt down geodetic survey markers. I located some that were presumed lost for a very long time.

Cadastral markers are for real property boundaries and usually a BLM control marker.

[_e_w_]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hail

Always a twist on this thread. I used to hunt down geodetic survey markers. I located some that were presumed lost for a very long time.

Cadastral markers are for real property boundaries and usually a BLM control marker.

That is really cool. If you are interested in checking that one out, that marker is located just past the piece of guardrail that sits below the trail. Anyone know how that got there? There is also something rusty starting to show itself near that guardrail as well.

Since it was a pretty dry winter, I am guessing some things may reappear once it gets a little dryer up there. I plan to take a camera with a telephoto to see what I can find. There is long rectangular box in the canyon that I'm really curious about.

There also seems to be a lot of new trails up there around dead mans and the sign that was sitting below the road in that area for sometime disappeared. Makes me wonder if people are reading this thread and then going out to hunt for treasure.

Anyone know the story of these vehicles?

I was told that there is another vehicle underneath this one. Bummer that someone took the engine cover a couple years back. Also around this vehicle are what appears to be gate poles that have been sheared. Both pieces have a cement base and there is piece of one of the poles just up the hill on a side trail. I've been hiking this trail for a few years and this is the first year I've seen/noticed the poles.



This one is a ways down and on it's lid. There was a tire stuck in the mud near this one that could have been the spare that popped out. Can't really see this one from the trail anymore.

[_e_w_]

A different view of Mulholland.

[ocinn]

Thought yall might get a kick out of this:

Old Section Mul ran from grandstands to skyline in my old car.

https://tinyurl.com/mulmiata1

the car had an awful setup in it (100# too stiff upfront with a broken valving shim in the drivers side front shock), hard old tires, and a passenger.

car drove like **** but still managed a good run, but my buddy in his new civic type r kept up until the end, which was my indicator that the car was WAY WAY off-pace that night. still the fastest run I have on video.

lemme know if the link doesn't work, I'll reupload it to youtube, this was just ripped-off of my instagram page.

[TCracingCA]

No the video didnt work for me, but I am not so good with that stuff.

I have shot personal video, and car selfies on Mulholland and elsewhere, but I never put them up online, especially videos. Ugh!

My Father passed, the Plate 0-60 in 2 second (60N2SEC) one is an inactive license plate, a wall decoration now!

[mrbeverlyhills]

Even on a Sunday it's crowded with sightseers, bikes, traffic and even contractors dumping their trash.

This is about 5/10s with the daughter filming, 1995 M3.

[ocinn]

Originally Posted by TCracingCA

No the video didnt work for me, but I am not so good with that stuff.

Uploaded to youtube, let me know y'alls thoughts:

I keep thinking about the hesitation coming into the sweeper, lots of time there as well as in the setup. You would not believe how much faster the car got shortly after this.

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by ocinn

Uploaded to youtube, let me know y'alls thoughts:

I keep thinking about the hesitation coming into the sweeper, lots of time there as well as in the setup. You would not believe how much faster the car got shortly after this.

First hope you guys control the road, no civilian risk. People are not going to like this, especially home owners. I stay in my area, Mulholland is just history for me, due to how built up, populated now. My roads now are all remote, like Kingman to Oatman, etc. Etc etc etc etc.
That does look like a very respectful very hot real honest run. It was hard to see the lines on my device, camera naturally shaky, and at that tempo, I never expect a perfect run. I have to watch it on a computer, to enlarge the screen. Your driving the power band was great, as you were in the meat of your cams in your shifts, didnt fall off the power band, and you scrubbed momentum using downshifts, keeping the revs up. I kind of wish you had a brake dash lamp, so I could differentiate your braking discipline, vice riding the motor down through gears
You are getting good tire stick, but a lot of great driving promoted that, the lines looked clean, not forcing the edge, and allowing some run out.. The best runs for us used to be on road race slicks, or like sticky old BFGs Softer Autocross R1 rubber or Hoosier Slicks, Avons, if we wanted to truly get serious, was our MO. I like a course walk mentally, as I like to late Alex out on to a straight, early apex, where it tightens down. Sometimes if the road bounces me, I might tap brakes to compress springs to take a set, and line up next sequence. It was singing, and looks real fast in the video, you guys are legit. I heard Miata, and my impression especially watching them slumbering through an Autocross, doesn't compare to a Road run in the wild like you showed. The left right left right left right left right not to identify the road section to Johnny law, can unbalance, and each is just a hair different to throw off rhythm, but the lines I can see properly straightening out the road. Most guys have over the line phobia, and are apprehensive to pound thru straight, turn to turn. You were back on throttle properly early. The big left hand sweeper, you ended up with multiple apexes, cut it up, or your tires were crabbing for traction early on, and you keep turning in to tighten the line. Thanks for sharing! You definitely know the road, and that would beat most all of the back in the days rides. Cool! I am feeling like a proud Father, and I dont even know you!

[TCracingCA]

Funny how different the performance envelope is of like the Miata run shared, vice a Big V-8 car. Runs in my Corvettes are almost entirely 2nd/3rd gear affairs entirely, on that road (dependant on rear axle ratios, using 3.70 R&Ps mostly). For shifting, I never touch first gear, but might bounce up to 4th, never touch 5th or 6th gear (yes 6-speed C2 & in my C3 using Richmond HD Rod units). Less shifts, less heel to toe etc., allows for a less frantic drive, allowing great focus on line and apexes, power application points, just generally a wider power band, more torque available in a wider rpms range to work. Wider tire widths, catches the road crown, ruts, unevenness, etc and can dart you offline, so we usually dial up more castor, for straight forward stability, but that lengthens wheelbase effectively. I prefer the heavy springs (heavy car/heavy springs) and that slams the chassis, forcing the 4 corner antique independant suspension to have to work. I moved to full coilovers, not semi's, and lost the full trailing arms on the two cars, with the vintage multi-link Guldstrand & CVC-Apex systems using basically an upright! That road, not good for heavy sway bar dependant cars, as heavy car needs all four planted, with no corners lifting, as weight of the mass, to tire contact patch, isn't as advantages as with the smaller lighter chassis'. The steering needs more muscling, as we have more oversteer to understeer and vice versa transitioning when truly pushing. I put in non-power steering, tighter & faster ratio 12:1 race boxes, getting away from the stock Corvette lazy 17:1 or higher power steering ratio. I can definitely see where the light, shorter WB, nimble cars have an advantage, in comparison to the gobs of power and sheer acceleration of my monsters!

I hope this post doesn't come across as cheesy, as I was trying my hand to make it sound romantic! ��

[Banning]

I received this in the mail last week concerning the speeding on Benedict Canyon and Mulholland Dr.
It comes from the Benedict Canyon Asociation and is sent to all residents in the nearby areas.

The City has installed License Plate Readers and more Video Cameras.
They work together by identifying Racing Vehicles by Video Feed and verifying Vehicles by License Plate Readers.

It would appear that they want to halt all Racing on Mulholland and in the surrounding Canyons.

Note that at the bottom of this notice (out of view in photo) they are asking residents to consider hiding these Cameras on their own property to covertly identify any Racing activity.

Our World is quickly changing so be aware.

[Jeff Hail]

Originally Posted by Banning

I received this in the mail last week concerning the speeding on Benedict Canyon and Mulholland Dr.
It comes from the Benedict Canyon Asociation and is sent to all residents in the nearby areas.

The City has installed License Plate Readers and more Video Cameras.
They work together by identifying Racing Vehicles by Video Feed and verifying Vehicles by License Plate Readers.

It would appear that they want to halt all Racing on Mulholland and in the surrounding Canyons.

Note that at the bottom of this notice (out of view in photo) they are asking residents to consider hiding these Cameras on their own property to covertly identify any Racing activity.

Our World is quickly changing so be aware.

Used in my former industry I can say with some certainty:

ALPRS are useless in reducing speeders. They are passive, camera in a box, images license plates as well as store latitude and longitude, direction of travel ,date and time and that is all. Law Enforcement, Insurance companies can subscribe to Lexus/ Nexus to retrieve photo sets by VIN or plate. What they can do is establish that a vehicle was at a location at a given time. They can on occasion capture a drivers face although LPRs tend to be aimed fairly low to reduce light bounce off the license plates. Less than 5% of traffic cameras are tied to speed reading devices and they require frequent calibration and certification. Software can read a license plate and if a vehicle is on a hot list of stolen vehicles can be flagged for follow up. They can also track a chain of locations where a vehicle has been over time. They can provide photo evidence of damage, prior damage etc.

Vehicle mounted ALPRS are turned on at beginning of a shift and turned off end of shift. Data is transferred to server and often shared with other agencies or or sold to database providers. Law enforcement uses this to extent for locating stolen vehicles with slow drives through parking lots, driving down the street and highways.

Stationary Video Cameras: These have to me monitored or a reason has to exist to go back and review video footage. (a resident reports a loud car at x time on x date) This is very time consuming for a high traffic road. I honestly would be more concerned with civilian video cameras as they can be strategically placed and footage can be provided anonymously as a data tip to law enforcement. Stationary cameras also have a high frequency of damage if mounted in accessible locations. Specific lighting is also required to capture quality data that is usable.

The two above if used for law enforcement (evidence gathering purposes) require a person to review, sign off an on any infraction, misdemeanor or felony activity. These persons depending on jurisdiction are most of the time some form of traffic officer, employee. Some cities have private companies do the review and then forward to a traffic division for final opinion as to proceed with vehicle owner/ driver identification, fine, court etc. Lots of legal issues have come up in the past.

Certain areas and devices require traffic impact surveys ( # of vehicles passing an area over time) to determine average speed then a traffic engineering study is used to determine need, controls, lighting, signs, speed bumps, and or radar devices may be added or used.

Speed meters: These are proven to work and are passive. They can also record speeds, dates, times for data review. With meter only they are cost effective. Good bang for the buck with cities.

ALPR cameras that are used in conjunction with automated red-light and speed enforcement systems are costly systems but bring a nice profit and financial sting to offenders. Azuza and Culver City loves these systems.

All reminds me of the motorcycle with fake cop mannequin parked on Beverly Glen.
It always worked the first time very effectively. Cheap and effective.

In the spirit of The Grand Old Lady Of Mulholland a way is always figured out how to avoid the pitfalls of traffic enforcement on this road. Its ingrained into the road itself. That spirit has outlasted and outlived every cop that patrolled the road since the first automobile that traversed it.

Cobblestone is the only solution for 100% of the time and 100% of the road but is not cost effective. Speed bumps every 300 to 500 feet are an alternative. When fire trucks, trash trucks and enough civilian vehicles get destroyed and damaged that the city has to pay for they will repave it again into the ideal smooth race course. As always since the first automobile traversed it.

The Grand Old Lady is always the winner.

[carambola]

Would a video drone apexing in the camera lens be a pain in the butt?

[TCracingCA]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hail

Used in my former industry I can say with some certainty:

ALPRS are useless in reducing speeders. They are passive, camera in a box, images license plates as well as store latitude and longitude, direction of travel ,date and time and that is all. Law Enforcement, Insurance companies can subscribe to Lexus/ Nexus to retrieve photo sets by VIN or plate. What they can do is establish that a vehicle was at a location at a given time. They can on occasion capture a drivers face although LPRs tend to be aimed fairly low to reduce light bounce off the license plates. Less than 5% of traffic cameras are tied to speed reading devices and they require frequent calibration and certification. Software can read a license plate and if a vehicle is on a hot list of stolen vehicles can be flagged for follow up. They can also track a chain of locations where a vehicle has been over time. They can provide photo evidence of damage, prior damage etc.

Vehicle mounted ALPRS are turned on at beginning of a shift and turned off end of shift. Data is transferred to server and often shared with other agencies or or sold to database providers. Law enforcement uses this to extent for locating stolen vehicles with slow drives through parking lots, driving down the street and highways.

Stationary Video Cameras: These have to me monitored or a reason has to exist to go back and review video footage. (a resident reports a loud car at x time on x date) This is very time consuming for a high traffic road. I honestly would be more concerned with civilian video cameras as they can be strategically placed and footage can be provided anonymously as a data tip to law enforcement. Stationary cameras also have a high frequency of damage if mounted in accessible locations. Specific lighting is also required to capture quality data that is usable.

The two above if used for law enforcement (evidence gathering purposes) require a person to review, sign off an on any infraction, misdemeanor or felony activity. These persons depending on jurisdiction are most of the time some form of traffic officer, employee. Some cities have private companies do the review and then forward to a traffic division for final opinion as to proceed with vehicle owner/ driver identification, fine, court etc. Lots of legal issues have come up in the past.

Certain areas and devices require traffic impact surveys ( # of vehicles passing an area over time) to determine average speed then a traffic engineering study is used to determine need, controls, lighting, signs, speed bumps, and or radar devices may be added or used.

Speed meters: These are proven to work and are passive. They can also record speeds, dates, times for data review. With meter only they are cost effective. Good bang for the buck with cities.

ALPR cameras that are used in conjunction with automated red-light and speed enforcement systems are costly systems but bring a nice profit and financial sting to offenders. Azuza and Culver City loves these systems.

All reminds me of the motorcycle with fake cop mannequin parked on Beverly Glen.
It always worked the first time very effectively. Cheap and effective.

In the spirit of The Grand Old Lady Of Mulholland a way is always figured out how to avoid the pitfalls of traffic enforcement on this road. Its ingrained into the road itself. That spirit has outlasted and outlived every cop that patrolled the road since the first automobile that traversed it.

Cobblestone is the only solution for 100% of the time and 100% of the road but is not cost effective. Speed bumps every 300 to 500 feet are an alternative. When fire trucks, trash trucks and enough civilian vehicles get destroyed and damaged that the city has to pay for they will repave it again into the ideal smooth race course. As always since the first automobile traversed it.

The Grand Old Lady is always the winner.

Don't like talking about deterrents, but employed those years ago. Rear taillight and three way rear brake light toggle switch. Vintage hinged Shelby Cobra front plate holder. Dual mode Strobe license plate light.