CSI "factoid" - gun ident from casing?

[Rick Lee]

That's good news. I have a real and excellent condition 1866 Winchester .44 carbine coming my way as soon as my folks move to their beach house next year. I hope I can afford the insurance.

[berettafan]

Tabs i saw a very cool show on History Channel (i think it was anyways) where they detailed the work behind what you're talking about. Really very cool to have such a good idea of what really happened there.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by berettafan

Ah, the famous Birdman Weaspons Systems, I miss that web site. That poster is hardly the tip of the iceberg of that vanished site. The coolest was the personal .50BMG caliber handgun with nuclear projectiles, complete with testing video. Too much.

Found it!

[jriera]

As far as I know, long, long time ago (probably still the case today) some/most manufacturers in Europe use to shoot several rounds (up to five) from EACH handgun produced and provide the ballistics information to the Police/Interpol. Not too difficult to difficult to track with that data (probably to the batch level) but nothing that a file cannot defeat.

[red-beard]

Funny. I had my P-40/P-11 nickle plated for rust protection. There was a little too much plating and the rounds would not feed into the extractor. A point file opened up the passage, just fine.

[M.D. Holloway]

FastPat - that was a funny vid - it would have really been cool if they table flipped over as well as the guys. Thats is one heck of a handgun though - was that really a .50?

[onlycafe]

i like seeing the trapdoor springfields that have been converted to everything from a pirate's flintlock pistol to daniel boone's kentucky long rifle.
or how about winchester mod. 92s and colt ssa revolvers in movies set around the time of the civil war ? or the same report from pistols and rifles. and don't get me started about ricochet noises.
and saving the best for last, squealing and screeching tires on dirt roads. i wonder what's on tonight?

[competentone]

Originally posted by berettafan

That is funny!

[competentone]

Originally posted by Purrybonker
But guns. I see this kinda thing happen all the time:

One of the CSIs finds a casing - picks it up and declares "45 auto" or "38 wad-cutter" or even identify a particular make or model of weapon.

Is this likely? Are handgun casings that unique that you can actually tell whether a gun is an "auto" or a Ruger, or know even the type of bullet (eg hollow point)?

I've never watched CSI, but one can clearly identify a lot about the firearm from looking at just a shell casing, sometimes even the make or model -- but that would be difficult in most cases.

You can usually tell that a case was from an "auto" simply because it is there -- it's been ejected from the gun. Specific rounds are designed for autos, but you can't always know that it was fired from an auto. For example, I have a revolver that shoots 9mm auto rounds and one that shoot .32 auto rounds. And there are some autos that are designed to shoot ammunition typically used in revolvers.

The firing pin mark left in the primer can sometimes identify the manufacturer.

The bullet type would be more an "educated guess" based upon knowledge about how specific manufacturers load their cases, rather than something that could be told from just examining the physical (empty) shell casing.

Examining a recovered bullet can tell you a lot since specific types of rifling used by different manufacturers in their barrels can be identified by the marks left on the bullets.

And of course everyone knows that microscopic identification of a good condition, recovered bullet or shell casing can connect a specific firearm to the specific ammunition components -- assuming there have been no modifications or "wear" to interfere with that identification.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I still wonder why nobody's come up with caseless ammunition.

[pwd72s]

Maybe I didn't hear the lines right, but I coulda sworn that the latest "CSI Miami" had the lab workers talking of a Ruger 10/22 rifle that handled .223 ammo.... anybody else catch that one?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
I still wonder why nobody's come up with caseless ammunition.

There are actually several caseless rounds in use today. I don't follow this new wiz-bang stuff all that much, but I do recall some European manufacturers developing something for their militaries. I think Steyr might be one. There are supposed to be advantages in military applications in that a fired case does not need to be extracted from the chamber, so the cyclic rate can be increased.

A couple of my pet peeves, or actually the same one with different guns, is the constant racking of slides and pumping of shotguns. Guy is going into a threatening situation with an empty chamber, and has to chamber a round just before shooting? Talk about a tactical blunder. Oh well.

Or how about the two minute drag races, with more lead changes than NASCAR, and the 30-some-odd-speed gearboxes?

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
I still wonder why nobody's come up with caseless ammunition.

H & K has such a rifle. It's never caught on to my knowledge, military only though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_G11

[DavidI]

tabs is correct in that the exact firearm can be determined by the casing. The extractor and firing pin leave unique markings on the casings. Also, the rifling in the barrel can be used to determine the weapon as well. The twist and spacing are different for different types of weapons. Most of this takes microscopes to determine though.

As for evidence collection, cops usually collect the evidence at the scene unless it is a homicide. In those cases, CSI people come out and collect it and take the photos. As far as investigations go, the cops handle all of that, not the CSI (usually non-peace officers).

I do not like to watch cops shows for the most part. They are completely wrong and exaggerated in most senses.

David

[tabs]

Rick Lee....don't plan on retiring on that Winchester 66...UNLESS you can PROVE that it was at the Battle of the LIttle Big Horn. The National Park Service won't test anymore guns for love nor money. I have met the owner of the 3 guns that sold at auction. He has written a book on the battle, which shows his 30 year collection of memorabilia as well as significant pieces in museums and other known collections. The title of the book is "The Life and Times of George Armstrong Custer." In the last chapter of the book he shows the 15 rifles that have been proven to be there.

I have a connection to the research done on the battle because I own a rifle that belonged to one of the 7th Calvary Troopers who not only survived with Reno-Benteen but received the Congressional Medal of Honor for Bravery at the fight.

[Rick Lee]

No, I know it's not one of those rifles. But it's still a nice gun for hanging on the wall and might bring enough to finance a decent class III toy for me.

[tabs]

Otto Voit joined the 7th Calvary upon its formation in 1866 and retired as a Sgt in 1895. As a member of Co H he was at the Battle of the Wa*****a 1868, Yellowstone Expedition 1874, Black Hills Expedition 1875, Battle of the Little Big Horn 1876, Canyon Creek (Nez Pearce) 1877, White Clay Creek (Wounded Knee) 1890, and finally in the AZ Territory chasing renegade Apaches in the mid 1890s. Retiring to Louisville, Ky until his death in 1906 at age 65.


Now if I could only tie this rifle to the Big Horn it most likely would be worth 7 figures. As it would be the only weapon that could be tied not only to a survivor but a Medal of Honor receipiant as well.

[Jeff Higgins]

Are you sure you didn't build that from a kit?

[cashflyer]

Originally posted by red-beard
And finally, remember, revolvers don't leave casings behind, only automatics.

Unless it's a magazine fed revolver.

[RickM]

Aside from firearm silliness the level of computer imaging technology is pretty comical as well.

One episode had them blowing up a tiny reflection in a mirror that was caught on video tape. From this tiny, grainy image they blew up and enhanced it to a high res pic.....unreal. Then of course they can run it through one of their databases to get an ID.....lol.