Video: Aluminum V8 Block from Billet on 5 Axis Mill

[kstar]

Pretty cool video:



Advantages to cast aluminum?

FYI.

Best,

Kurt

[beepbeep]

No advantages except you can do one-off's easier. With other words, you don't have to invest in expensive casting equipment.

Doing this in serial production would be a disaster. Imagine the cost of purchasing aluminium ingots, enourmous spillage, tool wear and tiome it takes to chew it from a solid block.

Nice demo for machine suppliers and probably a good way of making drag-race custom blocks but it's like peeling potatoes by chopping off rectangular pieces until you have a solid cube

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Interesting, although one has to wonder what one of those machines costs - probably a small fortune.

I found it interesting that some of the work/boring was done by moving the heavy piece of metal rather than re-aligning the router bit. Seems a difficult way to do it, although maybe necessary for certain shapes/angles.

Why waste the time on a V8 anyway - why didn't they go with a V12?

[cashflyer]

I don't know about the Matsuura, but a Haas 5 axis VMC will run you between $100k to $180k, depending upon the size (work area) and options.

I've been considering one to make some custom spoons.

Originally Posted by kstarnes

Advantages to cast aluminum?

Haven't you read the Fox wheel threads?
Everyone knows that cast aluminum can't be used for anything without serious risk of catastrophic failure that would kill everyone within a 5 mile radius and leave you and your next 3 generations infertile.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

If you're infertile, how would you have subsequent generations?

[gr8fl4porsche]

In that type of operation, is all the wasted aluminum recycled and made into future ignots?

Does a mill recoup some costs from the raw materials supplier?

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

If you're infertile, how would you have subsequent generations?

You see... THAT'S how dangerous cast aluminum is. It completely screws up your entire reality when it grenades.

(Either that, or the wife would have some 'splainin to do.)




Authorities currently speculate that the Minneapolis bridge collapse was caused by a Porsche with cast Fox wheels.

[Aerkuld]

As others have said there is the advantage of not having to buy pattern equipment for making castings which makes billet ideal for one-offs or very low volume work. It also gives the manufacturer an ability to make rapid part changes mid-way through a run of parts without having to get tooling changed - so faster reaction time to potential problems. Another benefit is more consistent material properties throughout the part as you do not get the variable rate of cooling that you do with a casting so no porosity. It could help to reduce weight as you can control wall thickness very accurately, whereas a casting you would have to allow for core shift as well as allowing sufficient cross section to maintain a flow path for the aluminum during casting.

I got the impression, just by watching this, that the block they made was a demo part rather than a functional piece and for some reason it didn't look full size?

[Mule]

It looked like freakin jewelry. Anybody have an idea what that's going in?

[lm6y]

It's just a presentation piece to show what the machine is capable of doing. It's not going to be a real engine.

It's a small piece, unless that machine is gigantic. If 5-axis checks in, he can give us the details, he runs one of those.

[Tervuren]

I somehow doubt that that was a "tiny" engine block. It probably looks small to you due to the large work area, and lack of human reference. Heres the W16 of the Veyron.

http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/video-bugatti-veyrons-w16-engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q34xIzTj8fQ

My dad once got a 5 axis on ebay for $7,000, but had no place to put it. Worked perfectly, but had to sell as we had no workspace for it. Made a killer profit, but we'd of preferred to have had the machine.

[Aerkuld]

Not as impressive as a whole cylinder block (even if it's a small one) but I thought you might like to see my own billet piece...

[Jeff Alton]

The machines are large, they can hold upward of 120 different tool heads in them at any given time. I was just taking today with a shop that has one (a Mori) about doing blocks and cylinder heads. I will get a pick of the machine tomorrow to give you an idea of its size......

Cheers

[kstar]

I am curious how the internal cavities of the engine can be "hollowed" out by such a mill? Can a working engine block be made from a single billet of metal?

Best,

Kurt

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

I am curious how the internal cavities of the engine can be "hollowed" out by such a mill? Can a working engine block be made from a single billet of metal?

Best,

Kurt

A traditional engine block with integral liners cannot be made in one piece from billet. The only way you'd be able to do anything like this that I can think of would be to mill out access windows through which the water jacket can be machined and then seal the 'window' with a weld in panel or bolt on cover. I knew a guy who made drag racing blocks from billet but they didn't use a water jacket so he never had that problem. If you wanted a one piece billet block than you would have to have liners in the block that are inserted seperately. You would then be able to undercut down the bores for the liners to allow the water jacket to be machined before fitting the liner.

[Mule]

Look at that thing. it has an open deck, just like your 944. Besides, the watar jackets don't need to go that far down the cylinders anyway.

[Aerkuld]

Originally Posted by Mule

Look at that thing. it has an open deck, just like your 944. Besides, the watar jackets don't need to go that far down the cylinders anyway.

Sorry - I was trying to think of what Kurt was thinking when he asked the question. By 'traditional' I was thinking of a closed deck with a water jacket below it which would normally be cast. The open deck option is a possibility that I ignored in my haste despite watching the video. Thanks for the correction!
Essentially we are saying that it is possible to machine a water jacket in a billet block.

[BGCarrera32]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

I don't know about the Matsuura, but a Haas 5 axis VMC will run you between $100k to $180k, depending upon the size (work area) and options.

Probably a factor of 2X for the Matsuura and 4X for a Makino.

You can pull off a Haas VF3 SS with a 5th axis trunnion for under $100k.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

The crank would still be the $$$ part. . .

[Jeff Alton]

An enclosed automated Cell like that one with a pallet pool and the all the goodies could be anywhere from 500K-1M or more.

Cheers