Sending money overseas - RANT...

[WolfeMacleod]

About 20% of my customers are in Europe.
Almost all of them have Paypal.

I know a lot of people hate Paypal, but it rocks.
Untill they try to screw you...

[kstar]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

. . . snip . . .

I know a lot of people hate Paypal, but it rocks.
Untill they try to screw you...

+1

PayPal is good 98% of the time for me and I don't mind paying the fees for the convenience.

But that 2% of the time can be really, really bad.

Best,

Kurt

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts

Okay, there is no good way to send money overseas, I have determined that. I'm trying to buy some rare 959 items from a dealer in Europe. PayPal seems to be the only way, but if people in Europe don't take PayPal, it's almost a done deal. The last transaction I had in Europe, I actually had to mail cash to the guy in an envelope.

The bank charges you a fee to send the money, charges the recipient a fee to receive the money, and then someone inbetween takes a chunk out randomly for passing it along. We see this all the time when people wire us money here at Pelican, money just "disappears". Plus, the banks rob you on the exchange rates.

I just tried to send the money via Western Union - what a ripoff that service is. Okay, so they charge you $65 for sending $1000 to Europe, plus, they charge you another $30-40 in hidden fees due to a horrible exchange rate. Then, those funds are put on your credit card with a cash advance fee of $30, and interest at 19.99% (Capital One). On top of that, I just spent like 40 minutes trying to process this with Western Union, and they refused to perform the transaction. Even after calling my credit card company, and them, each of them twice.

What a HUGE pain in the butt this is, this is the 2nd time that I have had this problem in the past month. PayPal is very well positioned to take advantage of this and make a lot of money if they can just get European buyers to sign up.

Rant off, I now have to go to the bank.

-Wayne

how about setting something up within the EU for Pelicanparts
that way you can receive and send cash within the EU for no charge other then the anual service charge of the account (30 euro or something like that)

and then not wire money over to the account, but simply use it to get Euro customers to pay via that way, in Euro's ( which isn't a bad thing these days)

i don't know the legal requirements for oversees companies and accounts in the EU, haven't looked into it, i don't know, maybe you have to have a legal representatation for that (set up a daughter company or something), not sure,

there might be other advantages
purchasing parts from Porsche from within the EU
increased presence in the EU ,
gaining customers who are now not buying because they worry about Visa payment security, or simply don't have it
getting payed in Euro's

perhaps worth investigating the pro's and con's



i think the biggest problem is probably the banks in the US, since wire transfer there hasn't really gotten to the point that it has in the EU, banks here are actually ditching cheques completely, whereas the US still heavely relies on em and has nothing planned to deter using them (increase cheque costs, improving transfer procedures)
no standardized automated system, so each bank has to go manual, adding costs

[Bill Verburg]

Visa & MC only charge a nominal fee. That's the way I always do it.

[steve911]

+1 on Bill's suggestion. If you are buying from a dealer, don't they accept MC/V? How else do they conduct their normal (within EU) business with customers? Besides, using MC/V then allows you to make sure that what you ordered is what you get. If not, you can do a chargeback against the merchant for the purchase price.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by steve911

+1 on Bill's suggestion. If you are buying from a dealer, don't they accept MC/V? How else do they conduct their normal (within EU) business with customers? Besides, using MC/V then allows you to make sure that what you ordered is what you get. If not, you can do a chargeback against the merchant for the purchase price.

within the EU, you deal with wire transfer
it's free, it's quick,it's reliable, no charges for either buyer or seller
identity of either party is pretty much guaranteed
everybody has it , with maybe the exception of a clochard(professional wino/bum) under the bridges of the river Seine in Paris
EU law for postorder(also internet) purchases, protects the buyer

Visa carries charges(5% on the sale price), which the seller doesn't want to pay, nor does the buyer want to fork over that percentage
and overhead for the equipment needed
and higher potential of fraud

[john70t]

What about a simple bank-to-bank funds transfer?

Skip the middlemen, and find the bank with the lowest rates. The amount is low enough as to not wake up as an arab meat sandwich, and large enough for the teller to give you the time of day, especially if you have a seperate account with the bank and a history.

[tchanson]

Originally Posted by svandamme

within the EU, you deal with wire transfer
it's free, it's quick...

Wire transfers with most US banks to an overseas recipient are most definitely not free or quick when sent from a typical US retail bank.

I make a fair amount of purchases from Europe for parts, etc, from individuals. If they don't accept PayPal, I'll rarely buy from them. Too much aggravation otherwise, as Wayne noted.





Tim

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by tchanson

Wire transfers with most US banks to an overseas recipient are most definitely not free or quick when sent from a typical US retail bank.

i was referring to the "how do people within the EU do it" question

as for Wayne, i seriously think it's worth investigating the possibility of opening up an account somewhere in the EU, then he can benefit of the "free within the EU" part, add another cheap payment option for PP buyers, and add an easy way to make payments for him as a buyer...

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by svandamme

i was referring to the "how do people within the EU do it" question

as for Wayne, i seriously think it's worth investigating the possibility of opening up an account somewhere in the EU, then he can benefit of the "free within the EU" part, add another cheap payment option for PP buyers, and add an easy way to make payments for him as a buyer...

Brilliant! Wayne IS now an international businessman...he may as well do the same as others.

[red-beard]

Welcome to our world...

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by tchanson

Wire transfers with most US banks to an overseas recipient are most definitely not free or quick when sent from a typical US retail bank.

Not entirely true. I have a no interest, free checking account with Wash. Mutual. With it I get unlimited free wire transfers from that account, in or out of the country. This is the same account that I have linked to my paypal account. I buy often from Europe this way with no problems unless the other bank is not wired into the SWIFT/BIC system. THis is usually the smaller credit union/savings& loans type banks which is becoming more rare.

[dewolf]

How about Pelican Escrow Services??

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Some very smart, enterprising person could set up a competing service to PP if they were so inclined. . .

[svandamme]

just send me the money already
i'm smart, and i'm enterprising
+ i gotz lotz of money to launder from my time in Rotterdam

[Aerkuld]

This is why it's helpful for me to have parents in the UK. If I want something there I put dollars into their US account to cover the value at the current exchange rate and they buy it. Likewise, if they or any other relatives want to send the boys US dollars or buy things over here for Birthdays or Christmas we can work it the other way.
I reckon it might be seriously worth looking into an EU based Pelican company.

[tchanson]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

Not entirely true. I have a no interest, free checking account with Wash. Mutual. With it I get unlimited free wire transfers from that account, in or out of the country. This is the same account that I have linked to my paypal account. I buy often from Europe this way with no problems unless the other bank is not wired into the SWIFT/BIC system. THis is usually the smaller credit union/savings& loans type banks which is becoming more rare.

Hence my use of "typical". Nice service on WaMu's part. However, after a huge retail expansion in my market over the past 3 years, WaMu recently closed up all of their branches locally and are gone where I live.

Perhaps it was linked to the costs of eating the foreign wire transfer fees...




Tim

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by tchanson

Perhaps it was linked to the costs of eating the foreign wire transfer fees...
Tim

The way my wife talks about it....might very well be true!

Forgot to add that I can wire in US or Euro. I always wire in Euro so the seller does not get hit with exchange fees.