Who will pay for the sin of murdering the unborn?

[jluetjen]

Our Pastor had some excellent thoughts on this subject last Sunday. I'm sure his very Christian thoughts would surprise many of the non-Christians on this board -- assuming that they bother to listen to the whole sermon. They are not at all like the picture of Christians' responses to this subject that the non-Christians like to paint. A couple of highlights for those with short attention spans:

Things not included:
- damnation to Hell
- God reaching down from heaven to miraculously reward the Christians and punishing non-believers
- The call for eternal punishment for people who support or commit abortion

You won't find him wasting much time on those subjects.

What you will find is:
- A call to share mercy to those who need it most, just as Christians believe that we've had mercy shown to us.
- A warning (from Mother Theresa) that abortions are a sign of a lack of compassion within a country.
- A call to show love, compassion and mercy on those who feel guilty after having an abortion.
- A call to show love, compassion and mercy on many of those "unwanted" people who -- some here argue -- would have been better off having been aborted prior to birth.
- That showing love, compassion and mercy -- on anyone, whether they be the unborn, the unwanted or the undeserving-- hurts. It's not easy. If it were easy or deserved, it wouldn't be love or mercy.
- The exhortation that "Mercy triumphs over judgment", and by implication that the ability to show mercy is far more important in the world then the ability to pass judgment.

I believe that these are incredibly valuable ideas, which seemed to be lacking on this thread up to now.

[Isabo]

Doug,
those are the kind of superficial answers one would expect from a traditional nun forty years ago. Take a walk in the real world.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by lendaddy

Don't like rape? Don't rape people.

Don't like torture, don't torture people.

This makes life easy

I don't torture and I don't rape. Yes, it really does make it easy.

Oh, and I'm one of those atheist/agnostic/non-religious types too - you know, the ones that supposedly are such a threat to society because they don't believe in any life-after-death consequences for their actions?

Well, I guess I should probably get to learnin' how to rape and torture then. Wouldn't want to disappoint.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I don't torture and I don't rape. Yes, it really does make it easy.

The point is that you now have no right to prevent others from doing it.

And again the religious slams are of little use on me.

[dipso]

Originally Posted by nostatic

ur right. Seems the "pro-life" crowd don't give a crap about the kid once it is born. They just want to make sure it gets carried full term.

When I see people walking the walk, I'll respect their opinion on the topic. Until then they are just another group who want to tell others that they have to live according to *their* rules.

You are correct sir.
They are known as the "love the fetus, hate the child" crowd.

[sjf911]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Seems to me virtually all the problems we face as a society are a result of having MORE, not fewer people in this world. Maybe excluding a few isn't such a bad thing, especially considering that often the ones being aborted would have either gone to families that couldn't afford to care for them or to foster care anyway. . . Just something to consider.

None of us actually asked to be here you know.

Jared Diamond's "Collapse" should be required reading for this discussion. IIRC he included at least one successful culture that was essentially destroyed by christian missionaries/invaders imposing a ban on abortion and infanticide that had been necessary to keep the population at sustainable levels.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Cue up that Monty Python song. . .

[Wrecked944]

Originally Posted by nostatic

I'm seeing the light! I'll wear black too! Luckily, I look good in black. Especially turtlenecks.

Black is becoming the new black! Let's all wear black!

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Once you try black, you'll never go back.

[nostatic]

decrying something and shoving a belief down someone's throat are two very different things.

Too simple?

I'm just trying to match the simplistic "arguments" put forth here.

I can decry homelessness, then work to help those in need. By volunteering in a shelter, helping to educate and train, I am not imposing my personal morals on the bodies of 50% of the population.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by nostatic

decrying something and shoving a belief down someone's throat are two very different things.

Too simple?

I'm just trying to match the simplistic "arguments" put forth here.

I can decry homelessness, then work to help those in need. By volunteering in a shelter, helping to educate and train, I am not imposing my personal morals on the bodies of 50% of the population.

But we can require you to volunteer and take them in before pushing for tax payer funded aid programs, yes?

Don't fret my brother, you've got simple down

[72doug2,2S]

Originally Posted by Isabo

Doug,
those are the kind of superficial answers one would expect from a traditional nun forty years ago. Take a walk in the real world.

Really? What are the Nuns saying today?

[Hugh R]

I just love it when a person thinks they have a right to tell someone else what to do with their body. How much do you weight? What's your body mass index, what do you eat? How about if I decide EVERYTHING about what you do with your body. And I mean EVERYTHING right down to whether or not I'm going to let you use Preparation H? Oh, and I will also dictate how you'll use Prep H, whether I'll let you use the insertion tube, or just place it topically. How's that for getting into someone else's body? Your OK with that right?

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

I just love it when a person thinks they have a right to tell someone else what to do with their body. How much do you weight? What's your body mass index, what do you eat? How about if I decide EVERYTHING about what you do with your body. And I mean EVERYTHING right down to whether or not I'm going to let you use Preparation H? Oh, and I will also dictate how you'll use Prep H, whether I'll let you use the insertion tube, or just place it topically. How's that for getting into someone else's body? Your OK with that right?

Hugh, if there were not another living creature inside that body no one would care and that's the argument. There is no desire to dictate personal action. Many/most pro-lifers see the fetus as a child, not a tumor on the mother and as sucjh is life to be protected. I understand that argument.

I tend to agree with the pro choice crowd but I'm embarrassed by how crass and unthinking some of their reasons are (not you personally).

That being said, claiming it's just a question of what a woman does with her body is simply not factual. It gets very complex when deciding what exactly that thing inside her is.

[kang]

Who will pay for the sin of murdering innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[72doug2,2S]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

I just love it when a person thinks they have a right to tell someone else what to do with their body. How much do you weight? What's your body mass index, what do you eat? How about if I decide EVERYTHING about what you do with your body. And I mean EVERYTHING right down to whether or not I'm going to let you use Preparation H? Oh, and I will also dictate how you'll use Prep H, whether I'll let you use the insertion tube, or just place it topically. How's that for getting into someone else's body? Your OK with that right?

How does this apply to saving the life of an aborted man or woman? Your life, liberty and freedom belongs to you up to, but not including the point when your freedoms and liberties interfere with or deny another's life, liberty or freedom.

Welcome to America Bub.

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by kang

Who will pay for the sin of murdering innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan?

The Chinese, ammatorized over 25 years with a balloon due at 12.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by kang

Who will pay for the sin of murdering innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Better yet, who will pay for the murder of innocents killed by the Jews at God's instruction, throughout the bible? Does God put that on his "Heaven Express" card?

[Rikao4]

somebody is holding alot of I.O.U's. out there.
Rika

[Isabo]

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

Really? What are the Nuns saying today?

I don't know. I've had very little contact with nuns since I was expelled from my convent school. I dare say they are still forcing their facile views and their priggish, repressed morality down the throats of innocent schoolgirls. I do know a Danish lesbian pastor and her lover who have a much better grasp of reality.