Godzilla wins again

[nostatic]

what's the RMS failure rate?

Do you track your 82? Or just drive it fast on the street so people will "see your backend"?

[kstar]

Originally Posted by ToddM

Hmm.. so everybodys #1 priority is looks or is the #1 priority to be able to say you own a "Porsche" and whether it is an overpriced, unreliable, disposable PoS or not is of little to no relevance???

I think you've gone a bit to far with this one.

I think it's obvious that the GTR generally outperforms most Porsches. The 'Ring times are significant and that track is an excellent test of any performance car. But, while 8 seconds on a ~3 minute run is a very long time in racing, it's not a long time in a car one drives every day on the street. So, you make some good points on performance if one is only racing his/her car.

But, there are subjective elements that are important to many folks beyond absolute numbers and this is what the folks here have been expressing. There's much more to the street driving experience than absolute numbers. This is why you see cars like the '72 911S and '73 RS still get such high praise from legendary drivers even when tested against modern Porsches.

Implying that a Porsche is "overpriced, unreliable, disposable PoS" and claiming that Porsche owners #1 priority is looks or is the #1 priority to be able to say you own a "Porsche" shows, IMHO, a misjudgment of the actual cars and a misunderstanding of why Porsche owners love their cars.

Porsches are simply not overpriced junk. New models rank extremely high in customer satisfaction surveys, i.e the Boxster ranked #3 in consumer satisfaction by Consumer Reports for 2008. If you can find the Nurburgring lap time equivalent of quality or customer satisfaction to support your position, instead of just problems that are typical of any manufacturer, then maybe you have something.

Looks are important, but looks with a soul is what motivates many Porsche owners. Also, Porsche does have a legendary history and a very competitive present - this has brand value and it is important to many people who buy the cars.

I'll give you the absolute performance numbers part of your argument . . . for now. But any road car is so much more than performance statistics on a piece of paper. I never cared if my old '72 911T hot rod was slower on a track than a Toyota Supra Turbo when I was making a purposeless run up the 101 in SoCal.

FWIW.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

I

Porsches are simply not overpriced junk. .

ur wrong Kurt. Every RMS fails on every car, usually right after the warranty runs out (they designed it that way). Plus they also melt in the rain, and can explode if you look at them the wrong way. More importantly, no matter how fast you go all you see is the back end of other cars. I think it is a poorly designed windshield or something.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by ToddM

I dont know why ANY of you are concerned about the looks of the front end of the GT-R , all you'll only ever see the backend, anyways.

please tell me you're 16 so this thread will all make sense...

[kstar]

Originally Posted by nostatic

ur wrong Kurt. Every RMS fails on every car, usually right after the warranty runs out (they designed it that way). Plus they also melt in the rain, and can explode if you look at them the wrong way. More importantly, no matter how fast you go all you see is the back end of other cars. I think it is a poorly designed windshield or something.

Ha!

I was with the other Todd for a while on the "absolute performance" issue, but his last missive is very telling.

Little chance for a reasonable discussion going forward, IMO.

Best,

[ToddM]

Originally Posted by kstarnes

I'll give you the absolute performance numbers part of your argument . . . for now. But any road car is so much more than performance statistics on a piece of paper. I never cared if my old '72 911T hot rod was slower on a track than a Toyota Supra Turbo when I was making a purposeless run up the 101 in SoCal.

FWIW.

I agree, why do you think I drive a 25 year old 911, myself?

What I am getting at is the general Porsche elitist attitude on this board.

I originally post a link showing this competition, people on this board take extreme offense to it.

First they deny that the GT-R outperforms every single Porsche made with the exception of the Carrera GT for 1/2 the price, then even firther denial when shown the GT-R V spec outperforms the Carrera GT for about 1/4th-1/5th the price.

Then with no argument left, basicaly start on that the car is ugly, because there reallt isnt anything left to criticize at that point.

Then this whole thing about what WE would or wouldn't buy ensues about buying used cars, Porsche race cars vs this GT-R street car, etc .when the original point of the post was more from a Manufacturers viewpoint of what how Porsche is going to respond to this.

Finally it ends up with just basical personal attacks to the original poster.

I don't see why everybody is so upset because somebody has just beat Porsche at thier own game.

Competition is healthy, and I feel Porsche needs it to bring their cars to the next level. Hopefully they will make something fast, solid and reliable with the soul, feedback and nimbleness of the old cars.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I get the feeling this guy is one of those "sideways hat/baggy pants" idiots that pulls up next to people at lights and revs their engine and asks them if they want to street race.

That mentality anyway.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I get the feeling this guy is one of those "sideways hat/baggy pants" idiots that pulls up next to people at lights and revs their engine and asks them if they want to street race.

That mentality anyway.

[ToddM]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I get the feeling this guy is one of those "sideways hat/baggy pants" idiots that pulls up next to people at lights and revs their engine and asks them if they want to street race.

That mentality anyway.

I rest my case, Porsche elitist attitude.

I show a technically superior car and am personally attacked.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by ToddM

I rest my case, Porsche elitist attitude.

I show a technically superior car and am personally attacked.

Seriously, you've done some name calling and attacking yourself, yes?

I've tried to be fair.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by ToddM

What I am getting at is the general Porsche elitist attitude on this board.

I originally post a link showing this competition, people on this board take extreme offense to it.

Actually I think some are offended by *your* attitude, and your very narrow view on what constitutes "performance." You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder.

You never did answer whether or not you track your car. Just curious as to why you're so interested in "absolute performance", and where you take advantage of all those capabilities. Are you going to buy a GT-R and track it? Or drive it to the local hamburger joint to see and be seen? Neither is right or wrong, but they all play into what constitutes "performance" for an individual.

I frankly don't give a crap what anyone else thinks about my vehicles. But if you do, then that is an important performance criteria for you. If having the fastest bench racing car is going to make you feel good, then you should buy it.

[ToddM]

Really? Where?

[ToddM]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Actually I think some are offended by *your* attitude, and your very narrow view on what constitutes "performance." You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder.

You never did answer whether or not you track your car. Just curious as to why you're so interested in "absolute performance", and where you take advantage of all those capabilities. Are you going to buy a GT-R and track it? Or drive it to the local hamburger joint to see and be seen? Neither is right or wrong, but they all play into what constitutes "performance" for an individual.

I frankly don't give a crap what anyone else thinks about my vehicles. But if you do, then that is an important performance criteria for you. If having the fastest bench racing car is going to make you feel good, then you should buy it.

This thread wasnt about me, it was never about me, what I drive, or what i planed to buy or not buy. Please tell me where I inferred any of this.

i simply posted a TECHNICALY SUPERIOR CAR and everybody went bezerk.

[nostatic]

actually, you *implied* it with your post (a person infers when they read something, you imply when you write it). But let's be honest...essentially you were trolling for the "Porsche elitist attitude" that you are so desperate to point out.

The thread becomes about you when you start making those kinds of accusations. I'm just trying to get a little more perspective on why you feel the need to troll like that.

[ToddM]

Originally Posted by nostatic

actually, you *implied* it with your post (a person infers when they read something, you imply when you write it). But let's be honest...essentially you were trolling for the "Porsche elitist attitude" that you are so desperate to point out.

The thread becomes about you when you start making those kinds of accusations. I'm just trying to get a little more perspective on why you feel the need to troll like that.

Anything you INFER from my post is something you self generated. Asking if I am 16, or saing I wear probably wear baggy pants and rev my engine at stoplights leaves nothing for me to infer, thatis a personal attack.

Accusations? Everybody went into denial mode, started staying it was ugly when proven wrong, then started atacking the original poster.

That is an elitist attitude. It is the kind of thing I expect from the BMW forum, not the Porsche forum.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I also notice you haven't denied it.

[island911]

Haven't we been here before? Yeah, Big, Fast and ugly ...but wait, they are close to $90k -Will Porsche be able to respond (enough)?

[kstar]

You continue to play the role of the innocent one, blaming everyone else and painting everyone as "elitist" with your broad brush. Besides being unfair, that's simply wrong.

As I said before, this is where you "lost it", IMO.

Hmm.. so everybodys #1 priority is looks or is the #1 priority to be able to say you own a "Porsche" and whether it is an overpriced, unreliable, disposable PoS or not is of little to no relevance???

Sheesh.

[island911]

Originally Posted by ToddM

Anything you INFER from my post is something you self generated. Asking if I am 16, or saing I wear probably wear baggy pants and rev my engine at stoplights leaves nothing for me to infer, thatis a personal attack.

Accusations? Everybody went into denial mode, started staying it was ugly when proven wrong, then started atacking the original poster.

That is an elitist attitude. It is the kind of thing I expect from the BMW forum, not the Porsche forum.

When you say stuff like "what does it matter, you'll only see the back" (paraphrasing) that doesn't ring true, when you are selling the car. ..that is, anyone who would agree, and say "I want one" would certainly have to look at that in the garage (if it would fit in there)

Yes, those performance figures got many of our attentions . .. and then we started looking at the whole package, and .. . yeah, that is not a $90k car. . . and it's size and styling

[scottmandue]

Dirty, rotten, BMW owners!