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vott does ziss do?
 
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it's easy to pass when you run the other guy off the road. had Schumi made a pass like this a few years ago everyone would have been screaming how dastardly and evil he was for making such a move, but since Hamilton is a media darling, it's considered brilliant. just goes to show, it's not what you do, it's not who you know, it's not how briliant you are, or any other tired cliche. it's other people's perceptions that determine your worth

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Old 07-20-2008, 01:26 PM
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unbelievable driving today. I doubt that the driver is responsible for the car development. Race setup, maybe. But development..hmmm.

There is simply not enough on-track testing to develop the car. McLaren seem to have developed and tuned the suspension. It was odd to see Ferrari come to the German GP so far out of tune, and struggling for balance. They seemed disorganized.

I think what is setting Hamilton apart is his confidence and reflexes. He is able to save a missed apex like no one's business, and is perfectly right at home right on the edge where he is extracting the last bit of speed from the car. He makes the car's ragged edge seem a mile wide.
Old 07-20-2008, 01:32 PM
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Great race. Lot's of passing. Hamilton had a great race, but in car a step ahead of the rest. It's too bad Fox cut away right as they were about to show Hamilton's pass on Massa. I was hoping they would show a replay, but NOPE... Thank god the races are going back to Speed.


Check it out before Bernie has it removed.

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Last edited by Neilk; 07-20-2008 at 01:35 PM..
Old 07-20-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeaksa View Post
Hmmm, wish I had not opened this thread. Have not seen the race yet. Thanks guys!
Joe I tried to edit the title and could not. I did put 2 giant spoilers in the thread so you a could stop reading on.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:30 PM
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Whew. Safe to talk now? I saw your spoiler notices, Jim. It looked fine to me but some might read on or just read their email notices.

Anyway . . . that was a great race. Hamilton did the job very nicely & that made for a very entertaining race.

Ian
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:37 PM
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Neil re-watching the the "pass" in that clip I have to agree ronin, that was a really dirty pass, putting your front tire in the sidepod of the other car and pushing it off the track is hardly good racing.

That is a moot point anyway, Hambone should have NEVER caught Massa, Massa should have been in front of Nelson 10 laps ago why he was cruising along for the last 20 laps is beyond me.

It was a well deserved win for Hambone and McLaren and once again Ferrari are running from the track with their tail between their legs.
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Old 07-20-2008, 02:37 PM
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Look again at 1:52 to 1:54 of the video. Hamilton is on full right lock, so he is turning as sharp as he can. The car is in a drift, and the front right wheel briefly locks up. Hamilton missed the apex because he had to adjust his line. I think it would not have been possible to give Massa much more room than he did.

To catch another driver, and pull alongside like that, your car has to be a lot faster. Ferrari just did not have enough car today.
Old 07-20-2008, 03:14 PM
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Come on guys. When Lewis pulls up behind him, he goes side to side like he's warming up the tires. He knew Hamilton was WAY faster. That move to pull back alongside was a joke. If Ferrari complains they're wimps, but Bernie will probably fine McLaren a few mil. The term for that exhibition was DOMINANCE. He is easily the best in F1. Schumaker 2.0
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Old 07-20-2008, 03:27 PM
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........Schumaker(Schumacher I believe)2.0.....
I think I'll wait for a FEW drivers championships before proclaiming THAT!
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:43 PM
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No excuses being made here but this answered a big question for me. I could not understand how Massa could not get around Nelson. It seems he was having brake problems at the end and was glad to finish 3rd. If this is true or not I do not know but it makes total sense considering Ferrari's pace in relation to Renault and considering Heidfeld was moving in on him too.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=35483


I guess I have to take back my sucking comment.
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Old 07-20-2008, 06:07 PM
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I am reading 7 different web sites post race gleaming as much info as I can. This is why I love the F1 season it is a lot of fun reading all the back stories post and pre race that make the races so interesting.

This sums up what I had rattling around in my head after watching the race:

Planet F1 on Kimi (I feel they missed the mark on Massa so I am not going there) then hinting at what I said earlier, can Hamilton be capable of setting up a car, can he give the feedback and have the understanding to actually work with the race engineer to get the proper setup efficiently only have to fine tune for race day. Meanwhile Kimi cannot seem to get it right?

Quote:
Kimi Could Be Paying For The Absence Of A Work Ethic
Raikkonen's position is safe courtesy of his title triumph last year. Yet he should not be spared criticism for another lacklustre outing (his last victory was in April). If the Finn has a weakness then it is his apparent inability to dial out a problem whenever his Ferrari is not tuned in to his liking. If the weekend begins badly for Raikkonen on a Friday it invariably tends to stay that way. Perhaps his race engineer is culpable, or perhaps Raikkonen's set-up deficiency is the inevitable consequence of his infamous reluctance to spend time in the car outside of race weekends or engage in lengthy debriefing sessions whenever he does.

"Kimi is extremely talented," Bernie Ecclestone once observed. "The trouble is, he's not as dedicated as Ayrton Senna was, or as Lewis Hamilton is, for whom it is the end of the world if something goes wrong." The problem, in fact, might be that something went very right for Kimi last October. Ambition achieved, has he metaphorically stepped off the gas since winning the championship?

A final thought on the matter: Last year, it was repeatedly asserted that Hamilton was 'lucky' because he was able to copy the set-up of Alonso. So whose set-up is he copying this year? Certainly not that of his team-mate. And who was the driving force during the recent tests at Silverstone and Hockenheim when McLaren found an edge that has cut Ferrari to second best?


Ferrari Don't Have The Man They Need
And from those questions comes another: who will be the driving force when Ferrari consider their response to the resounding defeat in Germany? The team must be in shock. Just a few weeks ago they were cruising to a one-two in France. Suddenly, in the blink of two races, they find themselves a distant second-best on a circuit that should have suited them. There is no denial that McLaren now have the upper hand but plenty of doubt that Ferrari can recover. How Stefano Domenicali - who has plenty to prove himself - must wish that Michael Schumacher was still on the payroll as something other than an headset operator.
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Old 07-20-2008, 06:36 PM
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Hambone sux. That was a bogus pass, Massa had a choice between letting the punk past or letting the punk wreck him.

I'd have taken him out if he tried to put me in the wall like that.
Guess that's just one of a thousand reasons I don't drive F1 for a living.
Old 07-20-2008, 08:39 PM
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What was that about Hambone being humble Mule?

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3847537,00.html

Hamilton: 'Massa didn't defend very well'

Quote:
Lewis Hamilton has congratulated himself on his "fantastic job" to win the German GP and admitted that he was surprised that Felipe Massa allowed him such a straightforward route through to second place.

Effectively required to win the race twice after the deployment of the Safety Car wiped out the ten-second lead he had constructed, Hamilton delivered a barnstorming final flurry to overtake Massa and then the Renault of Nelson Piquet junior to claim a deserved victory. While relatively subdued after the race, Hamilton was not shy of congratulating himself on his performance.

"I think I did a fantastic job," he declared. "The pace I had was incredible. It [the Safety Car] just made it more exciting and the win look even better."

But it is Hamilton's remarks on his overtaking move past Massa that is bound to draw the more interest. While the Ferrari driver was suffering from a clear speed disadvantage compared to Hamilton's McLaren, the Brazilian's feeble attempt to retain his second place has drawn strong criticism - and Hamilton himself has now echoed those sentiments.

"All I know is that if it was the other way around then he wouldn't have got past," the 23-year-old commented when invited to study a replay of his move. "He didn't defend very well."

I kind of wish Massa would have just stuck him with his side pod now, instead of giving Ham room to run him off the track.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:48 AM
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What was that about Hambone being humble Mule?

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3847537,00.html

Hamilton: 'Massa didn't defend very well'

Quote:
Lewis Hamilton has congratulated himself on his "fantastic job" to win the German GP and admitted that he was surprised that Felipe Massa allowed him such a straightforward route through to second place.

Effectively required to win the race twice after the deployment of the Safety Car wiped out the ten-second lead he had constructed, Hamilton delivered a barnstorming final flurry to overtake Massa and then the Renault of Nelson Piquet junior to claim a deserved victory. While relatively subdued after the race, Hamilton was not shy of congratulating himself on his performance.

"I think I did a fantastic job," he declared. "The pace I had was incredible. It [the Safety Car] just made it more exciting and the win look even better."

But it is Hamilton's remarks on his overtaking move past Massa that is bound to draw the more interest. While the Ferrari driver was suffering from a clear speed disadvantage compared to Hamilton's McLaren, the Brazilian's feeble attempt to retain his second place has drawn strong criticism - and Hamilton himself has now echoed those sentiments.

"All I know is that if it was the other way around then he wouldn't have got past," the 23-year-old commented when invited to study a replay of his move. "He didn't defend very well."

I kind of wish Massa would have just stuck him with his side pod now, instead of giving Ham room to run him off the track.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:48 AM
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And now, 2 races later Hmbone goes from flunky to Senna,..... again.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3847471,00.html
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jims5543 View Post
What was that about Hambone being humble Mule?

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3847537,00.html

Hamilton: 'Massa didn't defend very well'




I kind of wish Massa would have just stuck him with his side pod now, instead of giving Ham room to run him off the track.
A bit like King Shumy used to do...?

C'mon Lewis Hamilton is young, talented and fast. It has that arrogance and sense of being superior that puts him on a different level.

He reminds me of Senna and Schumacher.

He still makes stupid mistakes like in Canada and France (he should have just left Vettel overtake him and he would have finished on ther podium) but to me he's becoming quickly the class of f1 right now...

Kimi's up and down form (relative to Massa) is puzzling.

Massa could not have kept Lewis behind yday. No matter how you slice it the McLaren was just too fast.

I have heard people saying that he should have stayed on the right... Well that would have worked for that lap, but the following would have seen Hamilton take the right line and overtake Felipe after the turn...
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:13 AM
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Massa is great at putting in a fast lap. But he seems to lack the required mental toughness to be champion. And Kimi - not sure what to say. Sometimes it's just like he's phoning it in.

imho Hamilton has the fire in the belly and the smarts/cool to back it up. Sometimes I wonder about Kimi's fire and clearly Massa is a red mist guy. Hamilton does make some bonehead mistakes...we'll see how much of that is inexperience in the coming years. The Silverstone race was amazing though - that was in fact a pretty Senna-esque drive.
Old 07-21-2008, 11:22 AM
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Massa is great at putting in a fast lap. But he seems to lack the required mental toughness to be champion. And Kimi - not sure what to say. Sometimes it's just like he's phoning it in.

imho Hamilton has the fire in the belly and the smarts/cool to back it up. Sometimes I wonder about Kimi's fire and clearly Massa is a red mist guy. Hamilton does make some bonehead mistakes...we'll see how much of that is inexperience in the coming years. The Silverstone race was amazing though - that was in fact a pretty Senna-esque drive.
If you watched the Silverstone race live, and watched the live timing you would have seen that Kimi was walking Hambone down pretty hard and it was obvious prior to the 1st pitstops that after the 1st pitstops Kimi was going to walk away with the race.

When they chose to keep the scrubbed inters on Kimi's race ended.

This past weekend? A miserable race for Ferrari, as I posted above, Massa was fighting with some sort of braking issue, which makes sense to me because he was actually loosing ground to the Renault as the final laps progressed.

Its amazing, 3 races ago Hambone was a doofus that could not get it right and now 2 wins later he is Senna.

I would reckon Ferrari is about to have a big come to Jesus talk with the entire team, Luca di Montezemolo is on fire I am sure.
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:45 AM
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Crap race from my end.

I was happy to see Kimi make his way back up to sixth from that cluster-f*** of a Safety Car pit. The points are still close! Seriously, the Schumi-Senna comparisons are getting out of hand all over the media. Whatever it takes to sell tickets I guess?

At least Rossi won his first Laguna race with a insanely intense battle with Stoner. Go Doctor!
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Old 07-21-2008, 11:49 AM
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i don't think there's anything wrong with what hamilton did to massa in the overtake. he was clearly the better driver in a better car and he took advantage of the track space he had to force massa wide. during any race you'll see lots of the cars forcing other cars into positions they don't want to be in. IMO, that's what makes open wheel racing, and passing, more exciting. get to close and whoooosh, you're out.

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