Knife Sharpening For The Microscopically Anal

[TimT]

I have a chefs choice machine, a few diamond stones, regular whetstones, and a Japanese waterstone, plus afew steels and a leather strop. Also a lanston? system etc..

My pocketknives, and kitchen cutlery are always super sharp.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Do you know what the model number is?

I have been looking on the web and Chef's choice makes a couple of three stage sharpeners.

Here is a link to pdf comparison chart from the manufactures site:

http://www.chefschoice.com/docfiles/qrfelec.pdf

I have a 130

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by charleskieffner

with my lan-cay m-9 bayonet
this is normal for a high rockwell hardness blade.

The LanCay M9 is NOT a high Rockwell hardness blade, which is why it became dull quickly for you. It's less that 60 Rockwell, which is (pardon my French) crappy.

High Rockwell is 62, 63, not 59, 60. Don't assume that your "high Rockwell" knife will dull faster than a "low" Rockwell knife.

[304065]

John,

I use a device called the edge pro. It is better IMHO than other systems which require the operator to distinguish between 22 and 18 degrees. I cannot do that by eyeballing. The Edge Pro has a system by which the BLADE is fixed to the jig and the STONE moves on a rod, thus maintaining the angle. I have used this with great success, you simply start with the coarse stone (a japanese water stone mounted on an aluminum bar) to develop a nice burr, flip it over and do the same on the other side, then move to the fine stone, then cut off the burr and you are in business.

[Milu]

Another vote for the edgepro. The edgepro is the best sharpening system made. The Spyderco sharpmaker is great for quick touch-ups. The idea of using a powered sharpener makes me queasy.

[jyl]

I've been learning more about how to use a steel.

I used to just go "swish swish", steeling quickly, with the knife-steel angle held at the at the angle of the edge (20 degree, let's say).

Now I'm learning to move the knife on the steel slowly and deliberately, "feeling" for the rolled-over parts of the edge. Starting close to zero degrees, repeat until don't feel any rolled-over spots. Then increase the angle slightly and continue steeling slowly, until don't feel any rolled-over spots. Continue increasing the angle and steeling slowly.

I'm getting a much better edge this way.

[m21sniper]

I have one of those "as seen on TV" sharpeners. It works great. No idea what the blade would look like under a microscope, but after just 1 or 2 pulls a knife is plenty sharp for my needs.

[jyl]

I concede that I'm getting a little obsessive about sharpening the cutlery.

My other frustration is that I can't get the tip of some blades (the last 1") as sharp as the belly of the blade. Problem seems to be that the blade tip flexes so that the angle on the stone is wrong - I think. Doesn't make any real difference but, well, you know - sometimes I feel under-armed when confronting an angry onion that needs dicing.

[m21sniper]

I have the same tip of the blade problem, and yes, it annoys me too. IMO that's the part that should be the sharpest.

[alf]

Nice post!

For stones, i find that Japanese water stones work great. Not cheap and you need 2 or three in different grits to get best results.

[myamoto1]

This has been an interesting thread to read. I appears that many are confusing HRC with the grade of steel. Or more importantly not using both to factor the quality of the blade. In very general terms, a high carbon, high HRC blade will hold the best edge. However you will have a blade that will be very brital. The key to any good knife is finding the balace between carbon content and HRC. The best all around blade in my opinion is a damascus blade. Especially one with a high carbon insert for the edge. This allows you to take advantage of the best aspects of several types of steel, while still maintaining a very sharp edge. Here's a great resource for some futher reading:

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/index.shtml

[aigel]

I got the chef's choice 130 after reading this thread. Does an awesome job. And fast too. I don't have time to fiddle with knife sharpening and elaborate systems. I am busy using knives mos the time! This really does the job well and I can not say that the machine is tough on the knives if you stay away from the coarse stage until the knife really needs it - like after de-boning a whole large critter.

George

[red-beard]

Typically, Stage 1 gets used after the wife has abused knives. Otherwise, nothing but stage 3 and a quick job with the steel.

[jyl]

I found an interesting knife website. http://zknives.com/knives/index.shtml

A lot of information on different knife steels. http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml Sharpening. http://zknives.com/knives/sharpening/index.shtml And reviews of different kitchen knives, mostly Japanese. http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/index.shtml

Now, the guy is clearly a Japanese knife bigot, but even so I thought this info was worth reading. I wish I had a bunch of $600 hand-made Japanese kitchen knives to test.

I noticed his comments on Shun knives. His comments are lukewarm, but that is in comparison to some fairly rarified (in the US anyway) hand-made Japanese knives. Looks like he considers them better than practically anything else you can get at Sur La Table etc.

Edit: oops, I see this site has already been posted by myamoto. Sorry.

[Freybird]

My middle school shop teacher swore by Alllen Wrench steel to finish his sharpening.

[fumanchu]

where do you buy the varying grades of sharpening stones?


This thread has me fascinated. My wife could care less about our expensive kitchen knives and never, never uses the sharpener. She is tipping fresh green beans as we speak with a dull ass knife. Can you say cut finger?

[jyl]

I don't know where you get Japanese water stones, probably the Internet. Regular oil stones you can get at a knife store, or online, and they usually come in coarse, medium, and fine. And of course sharpening machines, sharpening stocks, and steels can be found at most any kitchen supply store. I'd like to know where to get the stropping stuff and the abrasive films. I've never tried those.

[MBAtarga]

Woodworking supply stores carry water stones - Rockler and Woodcraft are two B&M retailers that I know of. They also have web sights - as well as Highland Hardward (popular woodworking supply store in near-to-me Atlanta.)

[jyl]

Dredging up this thread because I took some photos that might be interesting.
They show the micro-serrations on knife blades.

This is a Victorinox serrated bread slicer, pretty new, never sharpened. You can see the factory sharpening is rough (intentionally, I think), and leaves tiny serrations on the wavy edge.



Here is a more magnified photo. It is hard to focus at this magnification, I didn't do a good job, but even so the micro-serrations are clearly visible.



By contrast, here is an old (50 y/o?) carbon steel slicer, about 14'' long, that has been re-sharpened and honed on a waterstone, the last time maybe a couple months ago. Even at lowest magnification you can see the edge is smoother, with minimal micro-serrations.



This more magnified picture again shows the relative smoothness of the edge. It also shows that I need to clean my knives better, I think that's a tiny (not really visible to the naked eye) bit from the last meat this slicer cut.



I was just given a Chef's Choice 120 sharpener for Christmas. I think I'll re-gift it back to the giver (they won't be offended - they bought me something they'd want for themselves) because, while it seems like a damn good machine based on some brief playing around, it sharpens to a 20-25 degree bevel which is not the angle I use on my knives.

I'm going to first try to take some pictures of a knife that has been sharpened on this machine, to see how the edge looks. The manual says that it produces a triple bevel with coarse micro-serrations, fine micro-serrations, and then a polished final bevel. I want to see if it actually does as advertised. First I need to go to a secondhand store and pick up a $5 knife to use for this test, because I don't want to sharpen one of my knives to 20-25 deg and then have to re-grind it to 15 deg.

[aigel]

What's the advantage of the 15 degree edge? It must be sharper but not last as long? I have that machine and really like it. I do a lot of butchering and use knives in the field as well where I appreciate a durable edge. And I haven't even mentioned the other cooks in the family ...

George