Why AR and not AK?

MotoSook · 01:47 PM

Snipe's ammo thread got me thinking. Why doesn't he just get an AK or something that shoots a larger caliber than the AR's 5.56 ammo. The AK is so common and ammo is cheaper. The AK packs more punch and doesn't give much away for accuracy. It's a proven platform.

So are we stuck on ARs because we're American?

The AR versus AK has been kicked around on other forums but Pelicans tend to be more objective and without the immaturity found on some forums. So let's hear it. Why not
just buy an AK?

HardDrive · 09-08-2009, 01:46 PM

I have an AK variant, a MAK-90.

AKs are very reliable, but mounting optics on them is a bit of rig job. The receiver of an AK flexes quite a bit, and that hurts accuracy.

You get what you pay for. AKs are cheaper, but thats for a reason.

m21sniper · 01:55 PM

MY reasons:

1) I am intimately familiar with the M16 series from having carried one in the infantry, and i am supremely confident in my abilities with one.

2) The 5.56mm is actually a more destructive round in soft tissue (especially when restricted to FMJ rounds), and at long ranges it is vastly more accurate.

3) The M4/CAR-15 is a lighter, and much better looking weapon than the AK.

4) The M16 series is the most accessorizable black rifle around.

4) The AK's only real advantage is it's reliability in severe duty scenarios- something that is of very little importance to a civilian or a professional soldier with a ready supply of cleaning materials.

5) the AK just says "bad guy" to me, and has an extremely negative reputation that could be very harmful in any kind of justifiable homocide or jury trial scenario.

6) Normy has an AK.

Those are my reasons, others may differ.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

If you want a sniper rifle, buy a sniper rifle. That's the way I look at it. I have several AK variants. WAY cheaper overall to own and operate, and ammo is easy to find. I'll probably pick up an AR variant at some point, but they're still awfully expensive. Returning to more normal, but still too costly right now.

MotoSook · 01:59 PM

Didn't Tabs have an AK for sale that has a milled receiver? Does that make it a more stable/rigid platform? How common is it to find something like that?

m21sniper · 01:59 PM

BTW, i would pick a Mini-14 over an AK in a heartbeat too.

Mini-14s are phenomenal rifles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

Didn't Tabs have an AK for sale that has a milled receiver? Does that make I a more stable/ridgid platform? How common is it to find something like that?

He wanted more for that one than you can get a nice Colt AR HBAR for though.

BTW, 80 countries use the M-16, including virtually every specops group in the entire non eastern bloc world (m-4).

HardDrive · 09-08-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

Didn't Tabs have an AK for sale that has a milled receiver? Does that make it a more stable/rigid platform? How common is it to find something like that?

He did, I think it was an Arsenal. You can get some well made AK variants that are more refined weapons, but then prices start to approach that of a nice AR.

http://www.ak-47.us/USmade.php

HardDrive · 09-08-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m21sniper

MY
5) the AK just says "bad guy" to me, and has an extremely negative reputation that could be very harmful in any kind of justifiable homocide or jury trial scenario.

I figure that by the time I am shooting at anything with my AK-47, civil society will have pretty much melted down.

MotoSook · 09-08-2009, 02:15 PM

Tabs AK was a bit pricey. I see some now for about $500 and a 1000 rds of ammo for it is like $250. So yeah it's cheaper to own and operate. Is a $500 AK (there I go again with the $500 benchmark) really that bad?

IMO an AR isn't the finest machine. The design is archaic and the fit isn't great. Sure it works and has been proven over and over again, but it isn't the Porsche of the rifle world. Having said that, if the AK (for those who live with them) is really far more clunky than an AR, then it's probably not something for some of us anal Porsche drivers

tabs · 02:26 PM

That AK was shipped last Friday to a guy in LA....not LA CA BTW..got $1150 for it.

MIlled recievers are a bit heavier then the Stamped variations. However the rigidity of being milled makes the receiver flex less, thus the accuracy improves. I sold it because the length of pull was 12.5 inches which is too short for me and would tend to bite me when firing. Wicked weapon.

Arsenal AK's are the the cream...trigger pull is sweet, workmanship is superlative. And milled receivers are TOUGH TO GET and are drying up as we speak.

I still have two of the Arsenal 30 round poly mags for sale and about 400 or so rounds. Will sell the mags at $25 apiece one was never used, and the rounds at 25 cents apiece plus shipping via UPS.

I still have my Colt AR15 Tactical Carbine...1 in 9 twist, heavy barrel. I also have about 2000 rounds of Green Tip..Lake City and Israelie..In that gun I use the HK mags.

On the same platform I have a Knights SR25 Match rifle with Leupold Tactical MKIV scope...in 308....capable of sub minute of angle at 600 yards.

If I were looking for an AR I would WANT a Knights SR15...they make Daddy want to cum..I have talked to those folks at the Shot Show...and only one word comes to mind PRECISION.

m21sniper · 09-08-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardDrive

I figure that by the time I am shooting at anything with my AK-47, civil society will have pretty much melted down.

A very likely possibility.

tabs · 09-08-2009, 02:20 PM

The other 223 that I kinda am fond of is the SIG 556...but I am not really a Black Rifle kind O person. So what I have will do.

Actually I would rather have a nice single shot or percussion rifle.

m21sniper · 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

Tabs AK was a bit pricey. I see some now for about $500 and a 1000 rds of ammo for it is like $250. So yeah it's cheaper to own and operate. Is a $500 AK (there I go again with the $500 benchmark) really that bad?

IMO an AR isn't the finest machine. The design is archaic and the fit isn't great. Sure it works and has been proven over and over again, but it isn't the Porsche of the rifle world. Having said that, if the AK (for those who live with them) is really far more clunky than an AR, then it's probably not something for some of us anal Porsche drivers

I would say that the AR is the Corvette C-5 of the automotive world, the AK is the Mustang GT. The Mini-14 is an LS-1 Camaro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

The other 223 that I kinda am fond of is the SIG 556...but I am not really a Black Rifle kind O person. So what I have will do.

Actually I would rather have a nice single shot or percussion rifle.

I shot my brothers SIG 556 about a month ago, when i first got my Bushmaster AR. My AR outshot it. My brother sold the SIG within 3 days afterwards.

greglepore · 09-08-2009, 02:25 PM

The AK74 is as destructive to tissue as any Nato round. Built well, however, the guns aren't much cheaper. However, they are rather robust-built to be dumped from helicopters on pallets, rolled around in the mud etc. The 5.45 ammo is relatively cheap now, but once the surplus stuff is gone, it'll likely be really pricey.

Seahawk · 09-08-2009, 02:33 PM

I hated my Bushmaster Varminter...but it was as accurate a gun at distance I have ever owned. The gun was great, my relationship with it was less so.

I traded it, sans scope and for a lot of ammo, for a Ranch Mini-14 with scope. I am a lot happier.

tabs · 09-08-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soukus

Tabs AK was a bit pricey. I see some now for about $500 and a 1000 rds of ammo for it is like $250. So yeah it's cheaper to own and operate. Is a $500 AK (there I go again with the $500 benchmark) really that bad?

What I paid and what I got for it are 2 different things....
your benchmark price is about what I paid. But that was before the rush, and I knew a deal when I saw it...

tabs · 09-08-2009, 02:35 PM

MINI 14's barrels heat up and accuracy goes DOWN>

m21sniper · 09-08-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

MINI 14's barrels heat up and accuracy goes DOWN>

Same thing happens with a military AK barrel or an M-16A1 pencil barrel.

Most combat occurs inside 100 meters, and most civilian combat inside 10 feet. IMO it's a total non-issue.

If it's actually something you care about they do sell mini-14 HBAR's though.

m21sniper · 09-08-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greglepore

The AK74 is as destructive to tissue as any Nato round. Built well, however, the guns aren't much cheaper. However, they are rather robust-built to be dumped from helicopters on pallets, rolled around in the mud etc. The 5.45 ammo is relatively cheap now, but once the surplus stuff is gone, it'll likely be really pricey.

AK-74s have never caught on in the US, i think they're still banned under the import ban from the early 90s.

Everyone uses the 7.62x39 round, and almost everyone uses crappy wolf JHP ammo that doesn't perform very well in ballistic gelatin.

That being said, no way in fk i want to get shot ANYWHERE by an AK!!!

MotoSook · 02:43 PM

Just like my Porsches, I prefer to build my own AR. This after I bought the first one and realize how simple and crappy (my quality standard may differ from most) a lot of them are. The majority of ARs use the same damn parts with different marketing and price. So anyhow I probably wouldn't mind spending a lot of money on a well built AK but I fear I'll be disappointed. But the extra punch would be fun.

Tabs what's a good price on a milled receiver rifle these days?