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In the end, it all boils down to simple economics:
Shaun hits the guy, he loses a 911 Sniper hits the guy, he only loses a 928 |
Interesting dilemma. Letting the police deal with it was the right call IMHO. I would also file for a restraining order. And make sure my alarm is working properly. And keep some sort of defensive weapon within reach for a while.
Also, I would be very hesitant to fire the woman (GF). Worse case you could end up getting sued by both of them if things really went sour. If she is actually a temp working for a temp agency, file a report with them ASAP to get the incident on record, along with any concerns or complaints about work performance. Trying to be a hero vigilante sounds cool on web boards like this, but in the real world most of us just have too much to lose and too little to gain from reacting in a risky fashion to a sketchy situation. The other parties however have little to lose and potentially a lot to gain...your $$$ |
Dennis... don't hold back... tell us how you really feel... SmileWavy
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BeyGon, that one had to be reported to the Department of Redundancy Department... it's a triple infraction... very rare... congrats. :) |
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:d:d:d |
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Hey Dean! I read your posts! Sometimes i agree with you and sometimes I don't.
Best, Tom |
I disagree with all of you!!! But I'm too much of a wuss to say so! :p
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Especially if he did it in front of the guy's woman. That's just the reality on the street. You want someone to leave you alone you don't get a restraining order, you beat them within an inch of their life and then beat them a half inch more. |
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I've been in these he said she saids before. The cops believe whoever is credible. Even if they don't believe you, the worst- the absolute worst- you are looking at is a night in jail. Big deal. |
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Someone invading your personal space isn't an attack. The results of Shaun's incident show that there was nothing to defense against. The whole thing essentially is a male pissing match and showdown of egos. If someone is man enough to walk away from that, or better yet, avoid it in the first place, then there is no confrontation. For me, the time to fight is when there is no other choice. That's what I've been taught. Luckily I haven't hit that situation, and I've been in some *very* sketchy times/places. |
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Thing is, physical confrontations are to be avoided at all costs. To many bad possible outcomes and a lot to lose. I know some really, really tough guys who are long-since retired from brawling because they wanted to quit while they were ahead. That's not to say that they would not defend themselves or even just knock someone out if angered bad enough but the consequences can be ugly. Most fights between men who are strangers are over something really stupid or insignificant, usually ego.
I don't want to hurt someone and I don't want to get hurt. A few years ago, I considered training in MMA and entering some "smokers" which are short bouts w/ headgear and gloves for amateurs from various martial arts studios to compete against one another. I have friends who have done it and had fun. I thought that maybe I was the toughest white-haired, middle-aged 170 lb. dude in town and it would be entertaining to "open up a can of Minnesota" on some unsuspecting fool in the chain link arena. Since I'm the world's worst procrastinator, I never did it. Plus, I'm waaay too lazy for the necessary training. Who knows? Maybe I would have gotten put in a coma or paralyzed and be posting here by blinking my eyes to a fat nurse who takes dictation. Even in the infamous slapping incident that earned my (bad) rep around here, I was not the instigator. I was having a verbal discussion with some guy, (and being reasonable IMO), when he jumped up in my face and I reacted by hitting him with a round-house biotch slap that basically rebooted his ECU. Those situations are to be avoided. My criticism of the OP was that I think that he instigated the situation, albeit perhaps unwittingly. :cool: |
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It takes two to tango. And never underestimate the need of a male ego to flex itself, especially in front of a woman. We never did get a pic of the woman involved in this little soirée. |
Might have been dipping his pen in company ink, as the old saying goes.
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I don't necessarily think that is the case, but if there is a reasonably cute woman around and the male ego is even slightly threatened, things tend to go south quickly. The whole peacock thing is genetic...
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I have been reading this thread since Shaun posted it. Shaun. You did the right thing calling the cops.
I'm not sure I would have handled it quite like you did, but...I'm not you. I tend to be diplomatic in almost everything I do. At the point where the dirt bag said "he'll need a complete accounting for...blah blah blah" I would have said that this discussion is not for you but for my employee. If he puffed up, like he did, then I would have told him he needed to leave. Not quite sure how I would react if he got beligerrent. I am not a fighter by any means. I have not been in a fist fight since grade school. Even then I can count them on two fingers. (none started by me) Childish behavior in my opinion. I got the living ***** beat out of me when I was about 21 by five complete strangers in Santa Cruz. (BTW, I was minding my own business.) They were looking for a fight. I had no contact with these people, no interaction, no nothing! They were just looking for trouble and found me. I did manage to break one of the guys arms over the bed rail of my truck and get some good licks on a couple of them before I had my arms pinned and the biggest of the five used me as a punching bag. I spent a week in the hospital with a fractured skull and years of bad dreams to follow. NOT WORTH IT!!! You never know what is going to set someone off. If it came down to protecting my family...thats another story. There is enough whoop ass left in my old bones that I would give it all I had. Shaun. Watch your back and be safe. |
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Touching someone else in a threatening manner is ASSAULT AND BATTERY. Look it up, you are just plain not correct. Shaun was a victim of assault and battery, and was absolutely within his rights to punch that guy dead in the mouth in self defense. |
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Any kid growing up in philly in a melting pot neighborhood is going to get into dozens of fights. That's before he even graudates high school. LOL. Then toss in years in the military fighting the artillerymen and marines in bars, years as a bartender/doorman, and years as a repossessor. My fight total is entirely typical for anyone that has lived the sort of life i have. And just so anyone doesn't think i'm merely bragging like a tough guy, i have lost dozens of those fights. My win % is probably a bit over 65% i guess. (of course a lot of the fights were mismatches or started with me getting sucker punched) It is worth it to clock the other guy for no other reason than to prevent him from sucker punching you and potentially doing damage you cannot recover from on swing one. I would DEFINITELY punch a guy that had just threatened me with physical contact to prevent him from suckering me. It's just plain that simple. |
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MHO There is a time and place for both reactions. Also in MHO Shaun chose the right course of action for his situation. There is a time for cooler heads and there is a time for action. I spoke with Shaun today. He is talking the appropriate actions be be able to defend himself in the future if needed, (you'd be proud of him Snipe ;) ) Snipe is correct. It was assault, by the law it was assault. |
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Stupid decisions generally get stupid results. Discretion is the better part of valor. But ymmv and obviously does. |
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I had a disgruntled patient who was looking for disability and was not happy with my exam findings. He came in and was getting squirrelly, making threats etc. I told him he needed to leave now or he could catch a ride with the cops when they got there. I guess I could have just pulled my .38 out of my back pocket and killed him, as he did threaten me in front of several witnesses, and was pounding on the door to the back office, but I did not. Another incident at our home in Texas. Neighbor kids, underage drunk on our dock, causing trouble. My neighbor and I went out to ask them to leave, the discussion got pretty heated, which got my wife out there too. After all was said and done, they left, the cops came and nothing really happened. Later on, we were sitting on the patio, debriefing so to speak. Turns out I was the only one without a pistol during the entire confrontation, wife had a .38, Ricky had his .357. I am glad Heather did not shoot anyone, she is a bit hot headed and a fine shot. If they would have been on the wrong side of the fence yapping like that, she would have at the very least pistol whipped a MFer. |
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But I'm not quite sure why anyone is addressing Shaun at this point... he hasn't been heard from since yesterday (Friday) at 11:08 AM. Kinda strange and... makes you wonder if things have gone down the tubes since then, doesn't it? |
Speeder's initial take was right. Shaun was asking for an ass whupping. He is a tough-talking wise-ass, but with no intent to back it up if necessary...and in this case, disrespected the fellow in front of his girl. The fellow knew that Shaun was not the kind of fellow that would be able to put up much of a fight...or have the intestinal fortitude to do so. The fellow returned the disrespect and gave Shaun every opportunity to take a swing...which would have given him an excuse to beat the crap out of Shaun and redeem himsef in front of his girl. Instead, Shaun came off as a wuss and the guy feels that he showed his girl that he may not have a job...but he is the more manly of the men in her life. Although this is not always the most effective way to impress a girl...it is all the guy had at the time...and likely made him feel better. Shaun's calling the cops on him likely further helped make his case regarding Shaun's masculinity.
Snipe is wrong as well. This was Shaun's place of business. Don't crap in your own nest...especially when the only witness is sleeping with your antagonist (unless she likes you better). Let him go...but be ready to run into him again somewhere else and kick his butt. Get the RO, it is a good strategy...because then after you pound him...he goes to jail, win or lose. |
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Good news... missed that.
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there are two douche bags in this thread & only one of them was on shaun's stairs that day.
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i should have known..this thread is long because sniper is, well being sniper.
i think shaun did the right thing. not every angry contact needs to escalate into a brawl. hell, this attitude practically invented road rage. shaun defended himself, and his property. kudos. |
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Having been sucker punched to pretty devastating effect a few times in my life (had my left cheek bone broke clean in two once on a sucker punch), i do not take chances. Also, being a smaller guy, i doubly do not take chances. Give me some kind of territorial head-butt or other warning of impending violence, and it's on. Every time, 100% of the time, it's on. I'm not giving away the strategic first strike. It's not worth the risk. I don't care if i get sued. It's better then getting shanked because i failed to seize the initiative. I see what you guys are saying about getting sued (my dad was sued many times a club owner, but it's always for peanuts- never over $10k), but i'd rather get judged by 12 than carried by 6 any day. Call me crazy. You have my rationale. |
Problem soled, right here
Fire the temp, too many variables, replace her with Epic Beard Man. Problem solved. Next :D |
Having grown up in a rough neighborhood (attended Paterson Eastside High School in the 60's) and having had to defend my self many times I understand Sniper's attitude.
Now as a partially handicapped man I've lost the ability to use my fists to defend myself. And believe me there are people out there that don't care that I'm handicapped. So I've had to find different ways of dealing with stuff that happens and mostly look for ways to avoid the situation entirely. Sniper bro I wouldn't mind having you in my corner at all if the sheet hit the fan, but if you managed to talk your way out of it you'd still have my respect. Maybe even more so for my knowing that you are capable of administering a severe beating. |
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Man card revocation pending. :cool: |
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One key point is to never let someone get into the strike zone when having a verbal confrontation. I don't care if you are Sugar Ray Leonard, you cannot sucker-punch me from across the room. Shaun actually moved himself into this guy's strike zone and put himself into an indefensible situation once they were eyeball-to-eyeball. I'm sure that the other guy closed the final gap that allowed the head-push but at that point you have lost all field of vision and will not see the *sucker-knee* to the groin or uppercut to the chin that leads to a very painful nap when someone breaks your bones while you are unconscious. Very stupid and usually done by someone with zero fighting experience or ability. When someone jumps into my face during a verbal confrontation, if they are lucky they will get a hard push-off or a biotch slap. If they're lucky. If I take their threat more seriously, it will be an uppercut or a forearm to the mouth. The key is to avoid/prevent that situation in the first place and it's almost always avoidable. |
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