Insane "additional dealer markup"

[willtel]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Poor Denis...

Here ya go...a pic just for you...




But this car is wayyy back in my past. It left here for Istanbul in 2007...I got tired of it. So it was time to ship it to a dear friend who would appreciate it.

Now the truth comes out. The PCA ousted you because you can't park.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by willtel

Now the truth comes out. The PCA ousted you because you can't park.

Neither could the other early 911 cars parked around...this pic was taken at PIR, back of the paddock, away from the other track day cars. Worry not, no hadicapped spots were taken...

[fred cook]

I stopped at a dealer once to look at the latest "hot" new automobile. When I saw that they had added about $10k for "market demand" I told the salesman that I hoped that car would still be there the day they went out of business. He wasn't smiling when we left.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by fred cook

I stopped at a dealer once to look at the latest "hot" new automobile. When I saw that they had added about $10k for "market demand" I told the salesman that I hoped that car would still be there the day they went out of business. He wasn't smiling when we left.

Pretty much agree with the above. There is supply and demand, and there is price gouging.

It's up to the individual to decide which he's being subjected to, eh?

[GH85Carrera]

The old "friend of a friend" of mine paid 14K over sticker for a new Prius. The dealer had a waiting list and if you wanted one you started at the bottom of the list. You could "buy your way up the list" and they did. They have more money than brains so it was no big deal to pay for "honor" of being seen in a Prius before the masses. The same folks will send a private jet to pick up their parents so they can can visit without the hassle of the airport security.

[romad]

So the rich Prius owners will pay top dollar to be the first green snob on the block, then chartier private jets to fly grandma around........makes you go Hmmmmmm.

"More money than brains?" How I know why I have no money.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Pretty much agree with the above.

Yup.

There is supply and demand,

Yup. (my post #22)

and there is price gouging.

Yup. Like boosting the price of plywood, bottled water...and selected sporty 'evacuation' cars, before an imminent hurricane.

It's up to the individual to decide which he's being subjected to, eh?

Yup.

So, Paul, how much did you "gouge" that Turk(ey) who bought your S?

And, how many bozos told you they hope you go out of business before you can 'gouge' some other clown when you decide to cash in on your collector Bullit?

..

[Por_sha911]

I remember when in 1981 a base plain jane Honda would sell for $750-1500 over sticker. They had a waiting list! You put down a $500 minimum deposit and didn't get to pick the color but got the honor of buying the next one off the truck. Such is the tale of American panic over the "gas crisis".

[pwd72s]

"So, Paul, how much did you "gouge" that Turk(ey) who bought your S?

And, how many bozos told you they hope you go out of business before you can 'gouge' some other clown when you decide to cash in on your collector Bullit? "

Darisc...pretty hateful "questions" here. But I'll answer 'em

Evren paid $65K USA for the 911S...I'd had offers for double that. I'm not about making money from what I did for fun. I did this partially to keep the car forever out of the hands of the strippers, flippers, and pimps of the early 911 world. That's working really well so far...

Bullitts are hardly "collectable", tho some who own them seem to think they are. Low mileage examples of cars like mine can be easily found in the mid 20's...It's hard to find unmodified ones, tho...since Mustang guys like to fiddle with their cars.

You see, I never really wanted "collectable" cars. That situation just kind of happened upon me during the time I owned the old 911S.

Any other insulting questions you care to ask?

[GH85Carrera]

Paul I know you have mentioned some folks thought is was horrible you sold your personal property to someone out of the country. I really don't understand those people either. It was your personal property to do with as you please. A friend here in OKC had an all original 356 that was in super nice condition. It was all original. 356 guys called him and came over all the time to see how wires were routed and other minor details.

He finally sold the car to a man in Japan. My friend had several people tell him it was wrong to sell it out of the country. He reminded all of them it was a German car that he owned and sold to a man that showed the most respect for the car and the deal.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by DARISC

.So, Paul, how much did you "gouge" that Turk(ey) who bought your S?

And, how many bozos told you they hope you go out of business before you can 'gouge' some other clown when you decide to cash in on your collector Bullit?

Not really a fair statement, and it appears more like a slam.

The collector car market (and used, pre-owned, certified, etc) is about as 'free' a marketplace that exists. There is no such thing as list price, or 'window sticker' so it's always market price. So is it even possible to 'gouge' someone on price on a used car?

If Paul's Bullitt appreciates (it will be decades, if ever) then it will be worth whatever someone wants to pay for it. All they need to decide is what it is worth relative to their other choices. If Paul's is nicer, maybe they'll pay more than what they feel is average. Used cars are like snowflakes, no two are alike, and you can't easily replicate them.

Some used cars act more like commodities than others. How many two year old Ford Fusions are out there?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

"So, Paul, how much did you "gouge" that Turk(ey) who bought your S?

And, how many bozos told you they hope you go out of business before you can 'gouge' some other clown when you decide to cash in on your collector Bullit? "

Darisc...pretty hateful "questions" here. But I'll answer 'em

Evren paid $65K USA for the 911S...I'd had offers for double that. I'm not about making money from what I did for fun. I did this partially to keep the car forever out of the hands of the strippers, flippers, and pimps of the early 911 world. That's working really well so far...

Bullitts are hardly "collectable", tho some who own them seem to think they are. Low mileage examples of cars like mine can be easily found in the mid 20's...It's hard to find unmodified ones, tho...since Mustang guys like to fiddle with their cars.

You see, I never really wanted "collectable" cars. That situation just kind of happened upon me during the time I owned the old 911S.

Any other insulting questions you care to ask?

I agree that it is time to bury the ugliness about the sale of the S.

But 65K? I always assumed it was far less. In fact, if you check the going rates for early S's in the time frame when Paul sold that car, that would have been a fair price private party sale. Anyone who offered "twice" that was a fool.

And the current market will bear me out. From what I see today, a high end dealer might get 95K net. There have been more than a few that weren't as nice go for under 50K.

[pwd72s]

Quick Milt! Show me another '72S coupe, less than 60,000 miles, original paint...never "restored", never dinged, for less than $100,000. Can't find one? Hmmmm....imagine that.

I sure never did see any like mine out there....some great restorations, but original, never dinged, never repainted? Happy hunting...

[Shaun @ Tru6]

$65K, seriously!? the way you made it sound, I always thought $35K or so. $65K was no sell-it-to-a-friend price. WOW!

[Zeke]

Well, here's one that is pretty straight. I didn't see the repaint part until I visited the 2nd time.
Hemmings Motor News: Porsche 911S for sale
75,000 ain't under 60K but if that's the qualifier, I doubt I will ever find one.

I'll stand by my statement (which I can't prove) that dealers get 95 net on these cars on average in great condition. If someone offered you 130K for yours and you sold it for half, that's a big price for pride and principle. When it comes to a car anyway.

It would not have been worth 65K to me if I lived in Turkey and had to pay to have it shipped, then titled in that country. That was a fair deal for Evren. If he took it to Germany, he might get crazy money for it, though.

Yeah, Shaun, I had been guessing 45K.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

...Darisc...pretty hateful "questions" here. But I'll answer 'em...

Paul - I was JOKING!!!

That's why I wrote 'gouge' not simply, gouge. It was tongue in cheek all the way, including the cracks about your S (the sale of which I know absolutely nothing about other than that some were, for whatever reasons, apparently upset about it).

Same with the crack about your Stang! I get a kick out of how some here get so riled by your posts - me?, I get a kick out of them and was mildly disappointed when you left for awhile, apparently in a huff? I'm an ally, not a detractor!

If I were you, I'd keep posting, praising the car you so enjoy, just for the chuckles reading the indignant replies they get - I've got a kinda perverse sense of humor, I guess. But not one ounce of hate! So sorry that you took it in the exact oppisite way that I intended.

[DARISC]

I had to repky to Paul's post the minute I read it because I was really concerned that he, and apparently others, didn't catch my intended humor.

Well, I just read the subsequent posts explaining his S sale and to my mind it's nobody's damned business what another person does with his own property, even if it's a hallowed Porsche.

I don't think Paul did anything "wrong"...other than perhaps piss off some dyed-in-the-wool Porschephiles.

And no, I'm not joking this time.

[speeder]

I'm going to shock everyone and defend Paul. $65k was absolutely a buddy price for that car. It was a 6-figure car all day long, 8 ways from Sunday. If you don't believe it, you either don't know the car he had or the market for early 911Ss. It was one of the cleanest original '72 911Ss in the world, w/o a doubt.

Restored cars in lesser condition fetch $100k all the time. I saw a restored, (better than new), '73 911S coupe go for $80k in 1989. Fact.

I just don't get all the Mustang baiting/trolling/whatever you want to call it here. Mustangs are cool cars but in a different category than 911s, IMHO.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by DARISC

Paul - I was JOKING!!!

That's why I wrote 'gouge' not simply, gouge. It was tongue in cheek all the way, including the cracks about your S (the sale of which I know absolutely nothing about other than that some were, for whatever reasons, apparently upset about it).

Same with the crack about your Stang! I get a kick out of how some here get so riled by your posts - me?, I get a kick out of them and was mildly disappointed when you left for awhile, apparently in a huff? I'm an ally, not a detractor!

If I were you, I'd keep posting, praising the car you so enjoy, just for the chuckles reading the indignant replies they get - I've got a kinda perverse sense of humor, I guess. But not one ounce of hate! So sorry that you took it in the exact oppisite way that I intended.

My bad...Hey, I do "like" the Mustang. It's a well balanced "driver". Sorry I misunderstood you you. Emphasis on "driver"...It was my paranoia that kept the 911S as clean and original as it was. I'm happy to be rid of that, and to be enjoying a driver that is easily replaced. Do I "Love" the Mustang like I once "loved" the 911S? Of course not...but that "love" was killed well by a handful of people with "ferengi" personalities.

Evren & I came up with the price together. I told him I wanted him to be the next caretaker of "Nina". We didn't even discuss price until several days later....days of he asking "are you sure?"

He started with: "I'll pay whatever you want"....I countered with $65K for the car and ALL the spares & books, and he considered it a bargain.

Milt...the "under 60K" I mentioned was mileage...well documented. Simply put, you'd hunt a long time to find a 1972 911S that was comparable.

Yeah...I got flack about how I shoulda kept the car in the USA...

Well, break time over here. First good dry day for spraying herbicides. Back at it.

[nostatic]

Frankly, nobody's business what you sold it for or where you sent it.

Funny story/life lesson told at camp last week. Bassist in a high profile corporate gig/wedding band. Sitting around with one of the horn players and he (horn player) is grousing about low pay. Bassist decides to commiserate: "yeah, only getting $125 blows." Dead silence. Horn player, who had been with the band longer, was making $80.

Lesson: some topics are off-limits.