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Again, judgment on Paterno would need to consider what he knew and what he did not know. I see no evidence in the article that anybody testified that Paterno knew that a young boy had been raped. According to the article, Paterno's testimony is/was that McQueary reported to Paterno that he had witnessed something disturbing in the locker room involving Sandusky. (even some of what I just said is conjecture, based on the article) In my heart of hearts, having watched Paterno's longstanding fidelity to high moral and ethical codes for several decades, if Paterno had more information than that, or even if he didn't, it is inconceivable that he would have failed to act decisively. That would have been completely out of character for him.

And so, he did act. He reported this to university administrators and (it sounds like) that means the Athletic Director. In my humble opinion, this sports opinion writer is taking a cheap shot at a legend of moral leadership.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:44 PM
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So it is undisputed that McQueary reports it to Paterno.

Then goes over to Paterno's house for a face to face meeting about it.

And Paterno's lame story is that he didn't hear the details????

Anyone is dumb enough to believe that?

But even if you believe it, it's still wrong. A real "pillar of responsibility" would have demanded the details.

So, there's really no way out of it for Paterno. Maybe he won't get indicted like the others who covered it up/did nothing/looked the other way/passed the buck/failed in their responsibility, based on some legal technicality. And I guess that's good enough for some of you.

But it's still terribly wrong in my book.
Old 11-07-2011, 05:48 PM
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I clicked on the link and read the article. The article is an opinion letter of some kind, not a factual news article. Obviously. It mentions, among other things, that at the time of the 2002 incident, Sandusky had been separated from the Penn State coaching staff for around three years. It also mentioned Paterno's testimony that the nature and details of the event witnessed by McQueary were not communicated to him by McQueary. Paterno nonetheless (though unaware of the details and in spite of the fact that Sandusky had not worked in that program since 1999) referred the matter to university administrators (apparently, the Athletic Director).

With all due respect (and it appears as if little may be 'due') to this sports-opinion-writer, Joe Paterno is more renowned for his moral and ethical code than his frickin' record-setting wins. Paterno has been much more than a coach. Parents sent their kids to his program more for character-building than football skills or wins. Paterno's LOOOOOONG record has been inspirational.

Unless somebody comes up with something more than some jackass' blustery finger-pointing (like for example....facts), I'm certainly not ready to throw Mr. Paterno under the bus. Not even close. Sure, of course this is a blemish on his program. One I suspect he wishes he had handled more proactively like, I guess, conducting his own investigation.

Again, I would like to see some facts about this case, or any other case in which Joe Paterno behaved inappropriately. If somebody can show that fact pattern, in this case or in any previous Paterno instance, I'm guessing a hundred very very opposite stories about that man can also be told. I can think of several right now. Paterno, for many decades now, has been a pillar of responsible behavior.
Thanks for being the voice of reason. It's amazing how people pass judgement so friggin' easy.

Obviously it sucks for the university and mostly the kids.

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Originally Posted by David View Post
The one thing that would give a Joe a pass is that once something like this is passed on to your supervisor, not only is it not your responsibility to follow up on, it may not be legal to know what's happening due to confidentiality. So assuming Joe figured an investigation was performed, he would not be privy to the outcome.

If he had witnessed the abuse then it's a whole different story and something he should have followed.
I was thinking the same thing. In fact I was talking with a customer today that is a PS graduate. The campus paper has a story that says Sandusky was on trial for charges in 08'. The prosecutor literally went missing & is presumed dead. The charges were then dropped.
It certainly is going to get messier before things settle down
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Last edited by Buckterrier; 11-07-2011 at 05:51 PM..
Old 11-07-2011, 05:48 PM
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But it's no use arguing about it.

People obviously have different standards of ethics and conduct and right and wrong. No use trying to change that.
Old 11-07-2011, 05:49 PM
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Sickening.

The grand jury report said McQueary was in the locker room that night to put away some new sneakers when he heard "rhythmic, slapping sounds" and looked into the showers.

He reportedly saw a naked boy, about 10 years old, with his hands against the wall as Sandusky subjected him to anal sex. McQueary left immediately and first contacted his father before calling Paterno the next morning and then meeting at Paterno's home.

Exactly what was said during that meeting is unclear from the grand jury record, which states that Paterno called Curley the next day to tell him McQueary had seen Sandusky "in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."
If Joe heard that description of what happened then I agree it was his responsibility to do more than just tell his boss, he should have gone to the police. If McQueary knew that then he should have gone to the police but not before he knocked the life out of Sandusky.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:51 PM
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McQueary did not tell Joe details.
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Old 11-07-2011, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
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McQueary did not tell Joe details.
You were there?

Anyways, according to the grand jury (who I assume has more inside info about it that you), plenty was told to Paterno, based on Paterno's own admission:

Exactly what was said during that meeting is unclear from the grand jury record, which states that Paterno called Curley the next day to tell him McQueary had seen Sandusky "in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."

That's plenty, in my book.

If Paterno didn't find out all the details after being told that, above, he closed his eyes and ears to it willfully.
Old 11-07-2011, 05:58 PM
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It's been reported as such.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:03 PM
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The grand jury report says that Paterno himself told Curley that Sandusky had sexually abused a young boy in the shower.

So, Paterno knew more than enough. (I know, I know, grand juries don't know ****, right?). Enough to act on. Enough to demand more details. And enough to call the police (as the police in the ESPN article point out).

Let's face reality. Scandals are bad for recruiting and bad for business (the business of college football).

So, things like this are covered up. From the AD down through the head coach, and everyone.

Everyone closes their eyes, pretends they didn't know. Plausible deniability. I didn't know the details. Downplay what happened. All that BS.

Business is business. If a few 10 year old children have to be anally raped along the way, well, I guess as they say, you gotta break a few eggs if you want to make an omelette.

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Old 11-07-2011, 06:30 PM
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I agree with you, McLovin. And, based on Paterno knowing what a young boy had been abused in the shower, I guess I am a bit surprised he did not press his athletic department to act more aggressively. Or maybe he did. I just don't know. All I'm saying is that Paterno behavior outside a tight, well-defined moral code is.....unprecedented. That guy has historically been wholly intolerant of behavior anywhere near the out of bounds line.

I wonder if he did press his athletic department to act more aggressively. Or did he just dismiss the whole thing? I dunno.

It certainly is tragic and since the important facts were coming out, somebody's got some 'splaining to do. Clearly, a ball was dropped. I really do wonder about the "rest" of Paterno's involvement. Did he just dismiss it after reporting it to the Director? I doubt it.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:38 PM
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"I was thinking the same thing. In fact I was talking with a customer today that is a PS graduate. The campus paper has a story that says Sandusky was on trial for charges in 08'. The prosecutor literally went missing & is presumed dead. The charges were then dropped.
It certainly is going to get messier before things settle down"

Centre County DA Ray Gricar actually went missing back in '05. He's recently been declared legally dead.

According to this article, Gricar was investigating Sandusky as far back as 1998.

I suppose if the DA investigated and chose not to prosecute there wasn't much Paterno could do. HE couldn't prosecute Sandusky.
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Old 11-08-2011, 04:00 AM
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This story is getting lots of legs ion this area--bottom line, while Paterno "technicaly" did what was legally required--report it to his higher ups, he didn't do enough. He remained friends with the guy and the guy was still a part of Penn State athletics.

He has/had the clout to make things happen in the program--especially with his own staff, and did the minimum required by law.

How many additonal kids were abused after this event occured? There are 40 counts pending.

He is done--and this will always be attached to his "legacy".
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Old 11-08-2011, 05:03 AM
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Paterno walks on water and could have done whatever he wanted and gotten praise from all corners. He chose to do something repugnant and deserves whatever criticism he gets. He chose cronyism over what was right. It was a black and white call and he ****ed up!

He had/has no boss at Penn State, he was the boss. The boss comment is just an excuse to wiggle out from under the responsibility.
Old 11-08-2011, 05:43 AM
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I was thinking that until I read more. The DA had the case in 1998. Sandusky left the program in '99, retiring or maybe quietly forced out? His leaving was odd because most around here assumed he was the next in line after Paterno. The fact is, the investigation was in the legal system. What more should Paterno have done? How much more involvement was required of him? The case was with the authorities. Sandusky didn't work for him anymore. It was up to them at that point to prove him innocent or guilty one way or the other.

I'm starting to think it's piling on at this point.
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
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The DA had the case in 1998. .
What are you talking about?

Did this DA have a time machine or something?

How in the world could the DA "have the case" in 1998, when the rape of the 10 year old in the locker room took place in 2002???

These irrational defenses of Paterno are amazing to the point of making no sense at all.
Old 11-08-2011, 07:30 AM
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Here's why everyone, including Paterno, turned a blind eye to it. This is from this morning. Like I said yesterday, it's all about the recruits, and all about the money. Period, end of story. If people, including children, have to be put at risk (or, from the sound of this case, even "go missing"), so be it.

But the unfolding scandal could cost the Nittany Lions in their pursuit of Noah Spence (Harrisburg, Pa./Bishop McDevitt), who is ranked No. 4 in the ESPNU 150.

A post on Spence's Twitter account Monday read: "Um psu might be a no no for me ewwww."

Minutes later, after a fan tweeted to say it was Spence's loss if he was no longer considering Penn State, the following reply appeared on Spence's page: "i kind of just dnt want to be apart of that."

Penn State has been believed to be among Spence's top choices, along with Florida. LSU is also reportedly in the running.
Old 11-08-2011, 07:35 AM
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"Did this DA have a time machine or something?

How in the world could the DA "have the case" in 1998, when the rape of the 10 year old in the locker room took place in 2002???"

You didn't look at my second link I guess. Sandusky didn't WORK for Paterno in 2002. He left the football program in 1999.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:06 AM
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Sandusky didn't WORK for Paterno in 2002. He left the football program in 1999.
How is that of any relevance?

You only have a responsibility to protect children against a sexual predator if that sexual predator is your employee?

I fail to see how Sandusky's employment status is of any relevance.

Are you saying if Sandusky WORKED for paterno in 2002, then what Paterno did/didn't do would have been unacceptable, but because Sandusky wasn't technically working for Paterno in 2002, it was OK????

(BTW, he retired in 1999, but negotiated "emeritus" status with the university, so he still had full access to the facilities for his "youth football camps" and other activities. Which he used regularly).

I really don't get some of you.

Last edited by McLovin; 11-08-2011 at 08:26 AM..
Old 11-08-2011, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
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I was thinking that until I read more. The DA had the case in 1998. Sandusky left the program in '99, retiring or maybe quietly forced out? His leaving was odd because most around here assumed he was the next in line after Paterno. The fact is, the investigation was in the legal system. What more should Paterno have done? How much more involvement was required of him? The case was with the authorities. Sandusky didn't work for him anymore. It was up to them at that point to prove him innocent or guilty one way or the other.

I'm starting to think it's piling on at this point.
After 98, Paterno could have easliy banned him (sandusky) from any and all PS athletic contact--Sandusky used these connections to the PS athletic program as an incentive to get these "at risk" kids involved with his charity--and used the facilities for illicit encounters (1) documented, but certainly more to come to light.

Paterno is done--how many of you out there would still be friends with a guy that was accussed on (2) seperate occasions of inappropriate behavior with minors?
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:17 AM
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Paterno called those who were giving Sandusky permission to use the university facilities apparently. They should have done more at the time. Paterno should have called the police but maybe assumed they would and McQueary should have went to the police in the first place. They didn't. Gricar should have done more probably when he first investigated Sandusky in 1998. I don't know why he dropped his investigation in the first place.
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Old 11-08-2011, 08:20 AM
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