For The Same Money (+/-) $45K-$50K..Testarossa or 930? Which Would You Choose?

[kaisen]

Back to the original question, I think a $45K will buy a Testarossa with a less than perfect provenance, but $45K will buy an exceptional 930 with all the i's dotted and t's crossed.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by McLovin

There may be some other Ferraris that I'd rather have than a 930, but a Testarossa isn't one of them. That thing is a boat.

True story... I had a TR pull over and let me pass on a mountain road in my 944.

Originally Posted by McLovin

IMO, while most of us here drooled over testarossas in the mags in the 80s when we were teens, the vast majority of us here would not, in the end, enjoy a Testarossa, and would regret buying it.

That may be true... but like that advice that most of us ordinary guys get "being rich and having lots of sex isn't all as great as it sounds."

Yeah... but I sure would like to give it a try.

[McLovin]

for sure, a $45K testarossa would, at a minimum, need to have an engine out belt change and service. One at that price point would have belts that are 6+ years old. Most buyers would not be willing to take the risk of catastrophic failure, so would need to at least change the belts and bearings.

Once you get into that, there's a lot of "while you are in there" stuff that would be foolish to not do.

A $45K TR would be ok for someone who wants a DIY project, and has the space/ability to do an engine out. And who doesn't ever plan on selling, because a TR that's had a DIY belt change/major service is a hard sell.

[skunked]

Have you driven a TR yet, I would recommend doing that before considering one. My Dad has a 86 and being 6'4" it's not the most comfortable car to drive and a ***** to get in and out of. However I really enjoy driving the car, lots of torque and the rumble from the 12cyl beast out back is entertaining.

Some things you would assume are average priced are expensive. One of them being the tires for the 15.5" diameter rims, those run $2K+ last time I checked. I remember there being a service update on the pulleys as well, it was taken care of when the motor was out for the 30K tuneup.

[recycled sixtie]

Flip a coin for which one u want. If it does not work out for you with the car you bought, then flip the car!
Of course you can consult with your wife as an alternative. If the car gets really expensive to maintain, then u both share the blame. Life is tough!
Nice decision to be faced with. I would pick the 930 but then that is not my choice!

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by skunked

Some things you would assume are average priced are expensive. One of them being the tires for the 15.5" diameter rims, those run $2K+ last time I checked.

They're either 390mm or 415mm, Michelin TRX
And they're no longer produced in large volumes but Coker Tire does offer them, and they're about $2K a set.

But with that logic, no one should buy a 1984 BMW 533i either

It's common to fit aftermarket, reproduction, or later-model wheels to early TRs that used the TRX system. Same as you'd do if you had a BMW or Mustang that had TRX.

[kaisen]

For those of you considering an eighties Ferrari with TRX, my friends at HRE recently came out with the perfect solution

505 | HRE Performance Wheels

[skunked]

Originally Posted by kaisen

They're either 390mm or 415mm, Michelin TRX
And they're no longer produced in large volumes but Coker Tire does offer them, and they're about $2K a set.

But with that logic, no one should buy a 1984 BMW 533i either

It's common to fit aftermarket, reproduction, or later-model wheels to early TRs that used the TRX system. Same as you'd do if you had a BMW or Mustang that had TRX.

Yeah they were Michelin TRX tires, he decided to have a custom set of HRE's rims made for the car utilizing the OE center hub/nut design.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I think the best thing you can do for an '80s Ferrari is to get rid of those five spoke wheels. The later models with more modern wheels were a dramatic improvement.

As much as I like the idea, my answer to the original poster's question would probably be neither. If the Testarossa drives as badly as everyone says I'd be more likely to spend my money on a 965 or try to find a good deal on a 993TT. A 996 GT3 would be very tempting as well.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by kaisen

JR, everything you say here mimicks the Ferrari boards, and they're "experts".....

My advice comes not from hanging out at Ferrarichat, or the various internet mailing lists that preceded it. Frankly, I think most people in the Ferrari world are idiots. That's one reason I got rid of my cars...

No, it's based on owning both of the cars in question, for quite a while. Some of them I bought new and had for 25 years. I did learn a thing or two along the way. And, I've also played in the collectible market a little and made some money on a few cars. In the end, it's all just my opinion, but I have some direct experience.

And, granted, I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't guarantee the future results of either car. I just would put my money on the fact that a TR will never be worth what a boxer, or early v-12 car is worth. I don't think a 930 is the next big thing either, but I've seen more movement in those prices, which is a good thing. And, they are still cheaper than a TR, by a little ways.

Here are some of the reasons that I think TR prices will not take off:

If you're looking for a TR, look past the services that everybody moans about. Consider that you can't get rear tires for them now.

Worry about the differential, which is less than stout enough. If it goes, plan on spending a fortune, as it will most likely take out the gearbox with it.

Worry about the fuse/relay box that will fail you, sooner or later. Ferrari wants $8k for a new one, while they last, and rebuilt ones are not cheap, either.

Go ahead and take the cats off, along with the thermocouple black boxes, and stick them on a shelf. You don't want to run them or, god forbid, have a problem related to one.

Figure out a way to close the engine cover and trunk that doesn't put dents in the aluminum and teach that skill to everyone who gets near the car. I seldom see TR without wavy sheetmetal.

Take solace in the fact that Ferrari has washed their hands of these cars, so future parts supplies will be a problem. There's already stuff you can't get and I'm not talking about interior trim.

Enjoy the fact that Ferrari suspension needs way more attention that the "forget about it" suspension that Porsche used. Enjoy all the little bits that wear out in too-few miles. There's a bunch of them.

Then, when you get ready to sell your TR, realize that most people now hate the styling. That's going to limit your buyers. A 930 has styling that doesn't polarize peoples' opinions as much.

In short, it's the same story with all of the modern Ferraris. They all cost too much money to buy. They cost too much money to run. They all have some design shortcoming waiting to bite you in the ass. For every guy that wants one, there are two that wouldn't buy one with your money.

We'll never agree, will we?

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

If the Testarossa drives as badly as everyone says

A TR drives fine. That's not the problem with them. In fact, they are much easier and more comfortable to drive fast than a 930.

JR

[foxpaws]

A few of my Ferrari owning friends have put it this way -

There are only 4 more sweeter words than "I bought my Ferrari" and those words are, "I sold the Ferrari".

The redhead is a drop dead gorgeous Italian car and is on almost everyone's top 10 list for best looking Ferrari. The 930 is German... well... I guess that pretty much covers the looks part.

[911boost]

Since I already own a 930 (3.3T 964/965), I'd like an F-car someday, but I have two young kids that need to go to college, so that someday is pretty far off. If though I am in the position to get one at some point and time in my life I think I would, but I don't think I'd drive it much.

For the past 5 years I have averaged probably $2,500 to maintain the 964T, and that doesn't include tires. Of course it isn't stock, and that has added to the expense.

We won't get started on my trying to get it to pass the new emissions laws where I live, ouch....

Bill

[targa911S]

funny you should call the 930 the widow makes as I have had 2 friends killed by them. Both were 1976 cars.

[Tobra]

TR is the F car I would least like to own.

When I went to pick up my Miata when it was fixed after the old codger tried to kill the both of us running a stop sign. There was a red Testarossa in the shop. I commented on it and the manager said, "Piece of junk. Always has something wrong with it. I am sure the owner would sell it to you if you are interested. If you are interested give me 5 minutes to talk you out of it."

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by javadog

We'll never agree, will we?

JR

I think we think alike, but look at it from different angles.

Paul talked about all the reasons why Porsche ownership wasn't for him anymore. He was jaded on the notion. So he got out. Good for him, I guess.

Your outlook on Ferrari is similar.

Your logic isn't flawed, but assumes that someone would inevitably make the same decisons about value versus cost. Fortunately, Ferrari buyers are passionate and emotional. Some of them are okay with the costs of ownership. They'd be happy at twice the price. For them, no other marque will ignite their flame. So the "value" they get from their ownership far exceeds the "costs". For many vintage Ferrari owners they're happy to pay $10,000 a year in upkeep versus $20,000 a year in depreciation. Maybe their daily driver is a newer S550 or Cayenne.... think they bat an eye at buying a daily driver for $100K and selling for $40K a couple years later? No, and we all know people like that. So a few grand for a toy is relative. Some people pour a few grand a weekend into their powerboat's fuel tanks. It's a hobby, and most hobbies are frivolous.

Some of the reasons you give for not buying a TR (or other 80s Fcars) is likely true of other vintage cars. Think Duesenberg is still making replacement gearbox input shafts? Can you still get a new replacement rear clamshell for a Lamborghini Miura? Nah. But that's part of the fun of the hobby. Or its greatest disappointment. Cup half empty or half full.

BTW, all the reasons you gave are exactly why nice examples will continue to appreciate in value.

[sc_rufctr]

My neighbour has owned a Testarossa for more than 20 years. He DIYs it and a few years ago I helped him change the clutch.
I've been his neighbour for more than 9 years and I can tell you that car is reliable.

It's travelled about 180,000 kms (112,000 Miles) and it still drives well. The interior looks a little worn but in general it has held up very well.

It still has the original exhaust and muffler. The starter motor was replaced with a brand new one from Ferrari about 12 months ago.
The electrics have been troublesome at times but right now they are 100%. The alternator was recently rebuilt by a company in the UK.

I don't know about the timing belts. I'm guessing at some stage they've been done.

----------------------------

All in all a great car but it's completely different to my humble SC.

I can drive my car just about anywhere and park it without it getting unwelcome attention.

The same can't be said for the Ferrari. My neighbour occasionally drives it to work and it's parked in a secure car park.
When he drives it on weekends it never leaves his sight.

[mikeesik]

Teste...........all day long.

It's worth the price in Art.

[strupgolf]

OK, maybe not a V-12, geeeeeesh, but a 12. I look at the WOW factor. When I see a 911 coming down the road, I don't know if its a normal or turbo, they all look the same (ok larger wheel wells, black paint), yea yea. I'ts a very dated model from the 80,s. Now, when a TR comes down the road, everybody wants to know, or does know what it is. That's the difference, you won't see 2 TR's at the cruise-in, and that's enough for me.

[Oh Haha]

930 hands down for me. I know I can fix it myself and it can be made even faster for "not much" money.

I love Ferraris and would love to own 1 someday.