My Tesla thoughts after driving one...

[kaisen]

RE: Tesla won't make a cross-country trip

For one thing, several people have done it just to say they did, including journalists. More are doing it as we speak.

But it's largely irrelevant whether you can or cannot drive your Tesla from Los Angeles to New York. Or Los Angeles to Denver, or wherever else. Look, if you do it regularly you would simply pick a different car. But face it, statistically NO ONE does it regularly. Once or twice a year? Sure.

So even if you took a cross-country driving trip every single freaking weekend, you'd still be commuting normally 313 days per year. The 85th percentile American drives less than 40 miles per day. So you charge it at home every night. It's full when you leave for work that next morning. A Telsa S 85 would let the average person (40 mi/day) commute every day all work week without plugging it in. But you still would/could at home each night.... and most do.

If you do drive 40 miles per day in a Tesla S 85, you use about 15 kW per day (40 miles at 37kWh/100mi). Charging overnight at slodave's parent's home costs them $1.20 per day ($0.08/kWh x 15kW). If they instead drove their 2007 S550 the same 40 miles at the EPA combined average of 19mpg, we'd use 2.1 gals of premium gasoline at $4.35/gal. That's $9.16 per day. $9.16 per day in the S550 versus $1.20 per day in the Telsa saves them $7.96 each day.

You're going to save about $40 per work week. Take a cross-country trip one weekend a month, and you'd have $170 saved to rent an appropriate car for that weekend, should you be worried about range or finding a place to charge (free or not). Of course, that's if the only car in your household is a Telsa EV, and you don't own another car. Do *ANY* of you only own one car??

Notice that NONE of my scenarios here have touched on free superchargers or government subsidies or rebates. Just the costs that Joe Public (in this case Dave and his family) would incur to go about their daily lives. It's just a car.

[island911]

Originally Posted by kaisen

..Notice that NONE of my scenarios here have touched on free superchargers or government subsidies or rebates. Just the costs that Joe Public (in this case Dave and his family) would incur to go about their daily lives. It's just a car.

No, it's more than that - you just said so. "government subsidies or rebates. Just the costs that Joe Public "

It's a technology push at tax-payer expense. There is no free-lunch when it comes to cars. Cars take resources. Electric cars take more, but at least they play a shell game to confuse the consumer. ooooh, look, free power... no tax... look at those suckers paying road tax... sales tax. I'm rolling in my $100k electric laptop on wheels, beotches..

[kaisen]

Just because there is a tax credit available to people that purchase EVs and PHEVs doesn't mean you have to take advantage of them. Just like Tesla's Superchargers .... you can charge at home and not take advantage of "free" charging. And the financial scenarios I've laid out DO NOT take either into consideration. If you do, the case only gets better for owning a Tesla. But even without them, it's a competitive car. Just looking at the car, not all the political BS you want to roll into it. For most people, they buy a car based on the car and what their needs are. They don't think about all of the macro-political effects. To them, it's just a car. And a Tesla is just a car. Even if you didn't know how it worked, it's a pretty nice driving car for the money....at MSRP, no tax credit. Comparing it to other $90K MSRP cars. Get it yet?

[GH85Carrera]

I can see the niche market for Teslas.

It is much like the niche market for the Mercedes G Wagon. Those things "start" at $114,000. I am sure loaded up they are even more crazy expensive.

Most of them never go off road. A Tesla would be cheaper but folks that spend that much for a car are not looking at the bottom line cost.

I just wish it did not cost so much up front to convert to CNG power. I would love to have a dual fuel setup on my El Camino. A 100 mile range small tank of CNG that I can refill at home would be sweet. If I need more than 100 miles switch to gasoline and go.

[kaisen]

Lots of Oklahomans love their CNG.....it's crazy-subsidized in Oklahoma. Very cost effective.

Sid's family uses CNG trucks

[island911]

Originally Posted by kaisen

. Get it yet?

It's a technology push at tax-payer expense. Get it yet?

Of COURSE they drive nice. Who ever hinted that they didn't? Enough with the straw-man arguments. Thing is People (usu men) who buy a Tesla are looking for the baddest-ass electric car available. It is for their Image. Or, "it's just a car . . that needs the rewiring of your house... That's what typical people expect when buying a new car. ..just another car. "

[kaisen]

When people buy a car they don't care about your mind games. Nice car? Does it suit my needs? Can I afford it? Okay!

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by island911

No, it's more than that - you just said so. "government subsidies or rebates. Just the costs that Joe Public "

It's a technology push at tax-payer expense. There is no free-lunch when it comes to cars. Cars take resources. Electric cars take more, but at least they play a shell game to confuse the consumer. ooooh, look, free power... no tax... look at those suckers paying road tax... sales tax. I'm rolling in my $100k electric laptop on wheels, beotches..

Trains, planes, automobiles... Add to that computers, food, paint, communication, etc. Many things we have available to us in our daily lives have been 'improved' or 'reinvented' at taxpayer expense. Military airplane technology has made commercial flying safer, NASA furthered computer technology (and paint technology too), think of Jeeps and WWII, the intercontinental railway, Tang....

Yes, cars take resources, all in varying amounts. Isn't that part of this - being able to choose what works best for you. Teslas are cars - they have certain costs, they have a visceral appeal to some, they fit certain lifestyle needs. People will buy them if they like them, they will buy a Porsche if that is the car that fulfills their needs/wants.

However, that Porsche will never get 'cleaner'. As time goes on, the cats, seals, etc wear down, and more pollutants are released, just the way combustion engines are - part of the 'costs'. The energy used to power an electric car is getting cleaner - every day power companies clean up the grid - with better scrubbers, with cleaner fuels, with wind and solar. The Tesla will only get 'cleaner' with age, again a cost or benefit that some people will consider.

Choice is good. And what is wrong with people buying Teslas for 'image' - you do remember you are on a Porsche site - right?

[island911]

Originally Posted by kaisen

When people buy a car they don't care about your mind games. Nice car? Does it suit my needs? Can I afford it? Okay!

Right.. they don't think "hey, how do I fill this thing up?" or "will the $50,000 battery last as long as my laptop battery?" or "will the plug-in burn-up my breaker box?"

"Mind games" LOL

You are delusional if you believe that people don't/won't consider the paradigm shift of dealing with an all electric car in a world of gasoline infrastructure.

[porsche4life]

Lots of Oklahomans love their CNG.....it's crazy-subsidized in Oklahoma. Very cost effective.



Sid's family uses CNG trucks

Yup, dad has 3 of them right now and has sold all his big diesels! Same power as a regular gas burner for 1.29/gal. Oh and it burns so clean you can go like 20,000miles on an oil change and the motor is still good for 500k. What's not to love?

Yes there have been some subsidies to get the infrastructure in place, but they are tapering off now and everyone still loves it. If I lived in OK still my DD would be a half ton Chevy on CNG, that's cheaper to drive than a damn corolla!

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by island911

Right.. they don't think "hey, how do I fill this thing up?" or "will the $50,000 battery last as long as my laptop battery?" or "will the plug-in burn-up my breaker box?"

"Mind games" LOL

You are delusional if you believe that people don't/won't consider the paradigm shift of dealing with an all electric car in a world of gasoline infrastructure.

All very small, manageable considerations with equivalencies in traditional cars. A non-issue for all but the paranoid worry-warts.

[island911]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

Trains, planes, automobiles... Add to that computers, food, paint, communication, etc. Many things we have available to us in our daily lives have been 'improved' or 'reinvented' at taxpayer expense. ...

Choice is good. And what is wrong with people buying Teslas for 'image' - you do remember you are on a Porsche site - right?

Sure, choice is good. And I don't have a (much)problem with those chasing image. Just don't try to sell me on the metrics, or some BS about, "it's just a car." Both the Tesla and the Prius are Statement cars. Even Honda started styling their econobox hybrid to look like a Prius. Because people buy these things to make a political/image statement. (else they get a Hybrid Camery or VW TDi... Volt...)

IOW If NASA had some super efficient battery tech, then that would be wonderful and useful for all. But today we have batteries which are far FAR from competing with high specific energy fuels. So we have massive tax-breaks for a political statement, green-washed as a piece of technology of the future. --oh please... this is nothing more than (govt subsidized) lipstick on a fat old battery pig.

[island911]

Originally Posted by kaisen

All very small, manageable considerations with equivalencies in traditional cars. A non-issue for all but the paranoid worry-warts.

yer kill'n me ..now those who question a paradigm shift are paranoid worry-warts - LOL. You are working hard to not be taken seriously.

[kaisen]

I don't care if you take me seriously

But the people who do consider the paradigm shift also ponder the known risks of traditional automotive technologies.

What happens if my Mercedes-Benz S550 blows a $22,000 motor at 95K miles?
What happens if my BMW 650 Gran Coupe blows a $4500 turbocharger (or two) just outside warranty?
What happens if my Audi A7 blows a $11,000 transmission at year five?
If my Tesla's battery pack fails at year nine, it will cost me $12,000 (worst case scenario, unless the prices fall). Similar cost-risk as a traditional car. Fewer parts, way fewer moving parts, a lot less complexity.

Do I really have to drive to the gas station and wait in line for a pump? I'd rather wake up, go out to my garage, unplug my car, and have a full charge to drive around all day, or all week if I'd prefer.

If you're honest with yourself about the costs, risks, and inconveniences of owning a traditional car, it's really not that much different with a Tesla.

[jyl]

I am uncertain about Tesla's ability to compete in $40K mass market cars (3rd gen car, after model X).

I don't understand why anyone thinks their success in the ultra high end niche is not "real". The model S is selling well, and would do so even without a $10K tax benefit (it doesn't get that in most US states, in Europe, in China, and yet it is selling well everywhere). The company has repaid its US government loans. Owners pay the standard rates for electricity. The amount of subsidy in each model S is quite small.

The fuel or maintenance savings from buying a model S instead of the competing BMW, Audi or Mercedes is irrelevant. People buy the car because it is cool, luxurious, high status, trendy, high performance. Which is how any $90K car is sold.

The model X (cross over utility vehicle) will be interesting. It isn't really a luxury CUV you can take to your ski house in Aspen, since the falcon wing doors preclude ski or bike racks on the roof. But it looks like a stylish, super cool drive for the richer sort of soccer mom. If I were to get a Tesla, I'd be more interested in the X than the S.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by island911

Or, "it's just a car . . that needs the rewiring of your house...

Originally Posted by island911

Right.. they[COLOR="DarkGreen"] "will the plug-in burn-up my breaker box?"

Good to know these facts, I had no idea.

I guess I'll have to stick with my current mode of driving around at high speeds with 20 gallons of highly explosive liquid just inches from my feet!

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Good to know these facts, I had no idea.

I guess I'll have to stick with my current mode of driving around at high speeds with 20 gallons of highly explosive liquid just inches from my feet!

Or with your motorcycles, a gallon or two literally millimeters from your nads

[slodave]

Time for a little adventure. "Gas" tank is a little over half full and ready to take on the L.A. county freeway system to navigate to Pelican Parts headquarters. I'll snap a pic of the Tesla and myself in front of the the big bird.

Oh yeah... I'll be stopping in Hawthorne on the way back to "top off" at the supercharger.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I think the Volt is cool from a tech standpoint. It's just more of a competitor to a Prius than an E-Class. I'd like to see the same tech applied to something more sport focused.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I think the Volt is cool from a tech standpoint. It's just more of a competitor to a Prius than an E-Class. I'd like to see the same tech applied to something more sport focused.

You mean like this?